Forum:UnNew UnNews czar

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Well, SPIKE left. Perhaps you've heard. This affects the wiki in several ways, but easily the most visible is that UnNews now has no leader. Much like any given African country, we're experiencing a good old fashioned power vacuum. My instinct tells me that this is going to cause drama sometime in the future. I've seen a couple of users attempting to take over for SPIKE, but I think it'd be a good idea to have the community at large choose the successor. That way, democracy trumps monarchy and we just have a contested election instead of a War of the Roses.

Also, and this is important, so I'm going to put it into bold all-caps: IF SPIKE COMES BACK, HE CAN HAVE HIS POSITION BACK. Be sure you realize that before you accept the nomination here. This is, however, a vote for UnNews czar in SPIKE's absence. Nominate below.~~ Sir Ljlego, GUN  [talk] 17:37, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

Nominations

Lollipop (talk) – contribs (new • del) • edit-count • block (rem • list) • all logs • groups • checkuser

Nominated by Lollipop

Score: 0

TheHumbucker (talk) – contribs (new • del) • edit-count • block (rem • list) • all logs • groups • checkuser

Nominated by Lollipop

Score: 5

1. He's got the chops and the dedication. If we were dumb enough to hold a VFS in the recent future, I'd see this guy making it, too. Still, I'm also of the opinion that the "czar" is not as tight with policy as the former chief, though I also believe things would run more smoothly with a single guy definitively in charge -- T​K​F​​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​UU​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​CK 22:29, May 21, 2011 (UTC)
2. Yeah obviously this guy -- Frosty dah snowguy contribs GUN PLEB 23:30, May 21, 2011 (UTC)
3. This one. Check out his contributions to the namespace lately, and that's not even counting helping out with articles in userspace. Also, not an asshat. – Sir Skullthumper, MD (criticize • writings • critchat) 23:33 May 21, 2011
4. For -- The Zombiebaron 23:41, May 21, 2011 (UTC)
5. Er... yeah. I dunno what I was going on about. He's already doing it, anyhow. 1234 ~ 00:28, 22 May 2011

Dexter111344 (talk) – contribs (new • del) • edit-count • block (rem • list) • all logs • groups • checkuser

Nominated by Black flamingo11

Score: 1

• He done good. (talk) 19:07, 21 May 2011

  This shit's pointless. MegaPleb • Dexter111344 • Complain here 00:15, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

Zim ulator (talk) – contribs (new • del) • edit-count • block (rem • list) • all logs • groups • checkuser

Nominated by Black flamingo11

Invalidated by Dr. Skullthumper - the guy's not around :(

Score: 0

• Comment. I'm pretty sure this guy's on an extended leave of absence, which is the only reason we're looking for a czar in the first place. Can anyone confirm? – Sir Skullthumper, MD (criticize • writings • critchat) 18:41 May 21, 2011

  Yes. 1234 ~ 19:06, 21 May 2011

  Nostalgia got the better of me. --Black Flamingo 19:21, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

Ljlego (talk) – contribs (new • del) • edit-count • block (rem • list) • all logs • groups • checkuser

Nominated by Electrified mocha chinchilla

Score: -A billion

1. DIY --EMC ^[TALK] 19:25 May 21 2011
2. Yes. Although I don't see this 'czar' thing working, anyhow, in light of the fact that dealing with UnNews more just a pile of excess bother than really 'power'. But this amuses me more than filing an actual complaint. 1234 ~ 19:32, 21 May 2011

   In case you haven't noticed, "power" and "a lot of excess bother" are virtually indistinguishable from one another. – Sir Skullthumper, MD (criticize • writings • critchat) 20:15 May 21, 2011

3.  For. Either an experienced user who understands UnNews, or an admin. -- Lollipop - CONTRIBS - WRITINGS - SHOP - Now adopting! - 20:19, 21 May 2011

   There's no reason for the UnNews EIC (I hate that term "czar") to be an admin - it should be someone who understands UnNews and can devote lots of time to it, whether that person is an admin or not. (Not a comment against Ljlego's nomination in any way - I'm just responding to Lollipop's note.) —rc (t) 20:52, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

   That's what I responded in the section below. The thing is, being UnNews czar requires a lot of responsibility. The thing is, nobody took Zim or Spike for granted. Those two were dedicated users, and we all never thanked them that much for it. -- Lollipop - CONTRIBS - WRITINGS - SHOP - Now adopting! - 22:23, 21 May 2011

   You overestimate the amount of responsibility for this job. To make a list of things they do off the top of my head: read the new articles, change the leads, move the bad ones into userspace, and write Unnews articles. Anything extra is at their discretion. -- T​K​F​​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​UU​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​CK 23:24, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

1. No thanks - I don't think that I would be appropriate to do the job considering I hardly ever participate in UnNews. And, Lyrithya, this is how you assure that someone who doesn't want it doesn't get it...(s)he doesn't get it.~~ Sir Ljlego, GUN  [talk] 23:23, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

Nobody

Nominated by the Coalition of the Sensible

Score: 90001

1. Nobody should have overall say about everything UnNews related. It causes people to act like dicks. We're a community and you all need to start behaving like it. Update it when it needs updating, fix up new UnNews articles if they need fixing up, etc. It can all be done by anyone. And it's best that way because there won't be stagnation of UnNews when one or two people either get banned or take extended leave. tl;dr version: Do it yourself, faggot. MegaPleb • Dexter111344 • Complain here 19:59, May 21, 2011 (UTC)
2. Yeah I was kinda thinking the same thing. More variation and all that. --Black Flamingo 20:07, May 21, 2011 (UTC)
3.  Against. You realize that UnNews, like all other major projects, has run the most smoothly when someone was actually leading it, that someone has always run UnNews, and if someone doesn't run UnNews this will probably a) negatively impact the quality of the entire project in doing so and b) result in a lot of users arguing with each other even more so than usual. Like it or not, UnNews (like, I must stress, any other major project) does need a czar to run properly, otherwise it just becomes a mess like the rest of the wiki. You're like a bunch of political science students, commenting on policy without taking the history into account as the proper context of our present state. – Sir Skullthumper, MD (criticize • writings • critchat) 20:09 May 21, 2011

   I seem to recall more disgruntlement and bickering when we had a "leader" than when we didn't. UnNews runs perfectly fine the way it is -- some users go above and beyond the call of duty like SPIKE or Zim, but this doesn't make them the project leader and we certainly don't need to appoint anyone as such. --EMC ^[TALK] 20:24 May 21 2011

   Zim was UnNews czar, and he appointed SPIKE as his successor. Don't know why this is so difficult. – Sir Skullthumper, MD (criticize • writings • critchat) 20:34 May 21, 2011

4.  Against. I bet SPIKE is looking down at us and thinking to himself, "look at those idiots, trying to be the next me". -- Lollipop - CONTRIBS - WRITINGS - SHOP - Now adopting! - 20:13, 21 May 2011

• Comment - First of all, nice job being the "sensible" one and then calling people faggots. Now, I didn't read what Skullthumper said (the bastard edit conflicted me), so I may be repeating, but the only reason I even brought this up is because the precedent has been that there has been someone at the helm of UnNews steering it in the right direction. Furthermore, I saw Lollipop trying to enlist TheHumbucker to be this anyway, and instead of just letting that happen in the shadows I figured I'd bring it to the community...which brings me to my last point, that bringing this to the Dump IS behaving like a community. Everyone's been bitching about unilateral action being taken inappropriately, but now here we are, attempting to give everyone who cares to chime in an equal voice, and we're faggots. We're not sensible. The first action that needs to be taken against not acting like a community is the ridiculously charged attacks that come out whenever someone has a differing opinion.~~ Sir Ljlego, GUN  [talk] 20:16, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

  The entire point of this isn't for power. It requires a lot of responsibility. Making audio clips, fixing up countless templates, etc. You have to think to yourself, "do I really have the time to do this?" Think about it for a while. -- Lollipop - CONTRIBS - WRITINGS - SHOP - Now adopting! - 20:32, 21 May 2011

  I've already thought about it, and I certainly don't think that I'd be a good choice for it. But again, it's more about everyone voicing their opinion and legitimizing whoever ends up doing all that work. Also, with great power comes great responsibility, and it works the other way too, sort of.~~ Sir Ljlego, GUN  [talk] 20:37, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

•  Against. Per Skullthumper. UnNews is one section of the site that I think benefits greatly from having somebody (or a committee! Gotta love committees) at the helm - not a harsh arbiter of comedy, but somebody who knows the UnNews system and can keep things running smoothly. UnNews isn't like the rest of the site - nearly all UnNews stories basically appear once and then are banished from the public eye for the rest of time. It behooves those articles and their writers to have somebody able and willing to properly give them exposure. —rc (t) 20:47, May 21, 2011 (UTC)
•  For. There was never a czar. Since I've been here Zim was a main editor who worked on it, with help from SPIKE, but never claimed exclusive control. When Zim left SPIKE kept workiing, and his advice was taken by most people. He started to sort out the stories, rating them on the UnNews page, and nobody else was doing that. SPIKE hasn't left, according to Romartus he's just working on his garden. His advice and guiding hand on unnews is probably the most valued right now. Aleister 21:04 Judgement Day
  • Before SPIKE was even a twinkle in Sophia's eye, Zim was the guy that made UnNews happen. Then SPIKE came along and Zim was obviously glad of the help. Then what you said happened. There's always been someone who takes UnNews under his wing and makes sure it "works," for lack of a better word. If SPIKE comes back, he can continue doing that job. If not, I'd hate to see UnNews go to hell because I made a forum topic to try to ensure that it wouldn't. Call it what you want, someone has to do more work than the other users if UnNews is going to succeed at the pace to which we're accustomed.~~ Sir Ljlego, GUN  [talk] 21:10, May 21, 2011 (UTC)
    • I would be happy with a committee, or even just a duo. Then again, I'd be quite happy with a czar too. In other words, this comment serves no purpose. --Black Flamingo 21:18, May 21, 2011 (UTC)
      • Let's make it a triumvirate so we can have a civil war afterwards! —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 23:28, 21 May 2011
•  For. The sentiment some people have that Zim or SPIKE were chiefs of UnNews doesn't create precedent. Just because a user can contribute more or takes greater initiative doesn't mean we need or desire a leader. UnNews works fine without this assumption (I have seen it happen!) and we should really avoid this unhealthy belief that any user is a leader/czar/chief of any site project, especially UnNews. It does nothing but inflate egos and cause conflict. --EMC ^[TALK] 21:20 May 21 2011
  • Actually, strong, non-shitty leadership increases productivity and tends to resolve conflict more than create it. In my experience on this site, anyhow. – Sir Skullthumper, MD (criticize • writings • critchat) 23:35 May 21, 2011
    • It isn't about contributing, it's about editing the templates that make up the UnNews main box and the UnNews Front Page. Look at the edit history for the Recent UnNews box on the main page and there's no way to deny that SPIKE was the Editor in Chief of UnNews or that there has been confusion since he left. ~  Talk 00:05, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
      • So it's about particular contributions which anyone can do themselves. This is basically the community designating someone to do what everyone else is too lazy to do. --EMC ^[TALK] 00:10 May 22 2011
        • It's not about laziness, it is about timeliness and consistency, two things you can't have when something is run entirely democratically. – Sir Skullthumper, MD (criticize • writings • critchat) 00:14 May 22, 2011
          • And because some of these templates end up putting articles on the main page, it's about making sure Uncyclopedia is showcasing it's best work. If everyone can edit this template, users will just put their own articles up there, regardless of how good they are, simply because they want the exposure. ~  Talk 00:17, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
            • Exactly, says me. I would put a story on the main page if SPIKE was gone from the site for a few hours and I knew that he would have either approved or strongly disapproved because of political beliefs (I had to "sneak" the UnNews about the 5 year old in Madison past him). Only very good pages should be put on the main page, so gatekeepers are needed for that in case SPIKE has been away too long to pick up his interest in coming back. Aleister 00:50 Judgement Day plus 1
•  Against. Completely against. On one hand you say, we are a community, so lets all put an effort together, discuss, talk in open transparency and we will make a lovely happy news room, and yet on the other hand, this website is completely top down in every other space and especially in terms of deleting articles, banning and blocking people for what they say, write or edit with no apology or democratic appeal process and no need for explanation let alone discussion "stop telling me how to do my job". Why should the whole website be top down and not UnNews? SPIKE never took a hissy fit if I disagreed with him and was flexible and listened if I decided to submit my article any ways. A good, flexible leader who can compromise and who is approachable without a "Ill do whatever I want" is definitely whats needed (hopefully not a dick but hopefully just a tiny little bit). Now, any competent volunteers with the copy-editing skills, time on their hands and hunger for good quality? Who will copy edit hundreds of articles? Anyone who can "EXPLAIN" why they are doing something, why they don't like something, why it should be changed? Anyone who will write good quick critiques of articles? Step-up :) UnNews is by far the best part of this website and it needs a good copy editor. --ShabiDOO 01:10, May 22, 2011 (UTC)
•  For. First of all, if Spike comes back this is probably all for moot anyway, but there's really two different schools of thought in humor and I think they really show with UnNews. I think the main thing we need to decide with this is how narrow we want our UnNews to be. If you choose to have a "copy editor" here, you are choosing for a limited definition of UnNews. The satire has to fit into a certain format, and if you step outside that format, it either gets edited to hell, moved out of UnNews, or VFDed. On the one hand, that limited definition can create for more adept satire. The better you mimic real news, the stronger the joke many times. I imagine Spike would probably support this view, and yeah to some extent he has a point. The other view is that more freedom creates more possibilities for humor. I definitely lean toward the more "Out of the box" style humor thinking, hence why I have disagreed with Spike in the past, but I personally would love for the opportunity for more out of the box style UnNews. Yes, we would be trading in more consistency, but that may not necessarily be a bad thing. Some of Uncyclopedia's best articles have been very out of the box, and UnNews may be the same way. By standardizing our humor through a copyeditor, we may have less downs but also less ups. With a copyeditor, the structure will mean less stinker articles and less absolutely brilliant articles. Without a copyeditor, there's a lot more potential for both sucky articles and genius articles. I myself am willing to tolerate a few stinkers for the opportunity to mine new comedy gold and go places we haven't before, but I suppose that's personal preference. User:Mrthejazz/sig 06:18, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

Mr. Jazz...I don't think we really disagree that much. 80% of Spikes work was technical editing. Taking care of spelling mistakes, grammar, active/passive voice and choosing the lead stories and picking good headlines. If we have a czar (though that's a bad title and it shouldn't be that) who is willing to do that, and focus less on making all the stories uniform (though I had no problem having out of the box stories getting past Spike except the last one) then we can pretty much have both a Czar and creative writing. Hopefully there's someone willing to do that many pee-review like edits and feedback of so many news stories as well as technical editing as Spike did. :) --ShabiDOO 21:45, May 23, 2011 (UTC)

You may be right, Shabidoo. I personally have no clue how much of his edits were technical, since I rarely wrote UnNews. I also confess ignorance of his "pee review" like edits. I suppose I just have an experimental attitude toward this.

I have to confess my own fears with this. I imagine giving anyone power and hoping they won't abuse it to be a very unwise strategy. People are human, and humans like to have their opinions validated and beliefs proven right, myself included obviously. That's why I haven't nominated myself for this despite the fact that I've worked in a daily newspaper for 5 months and have audio editing experience (well that and the fact that I'm rarely on here anymore.) I wouldn't trust myself with such a job, and neither do I trust one single person, no matter how positive or well intentioned to handle this job. All that said, this is a humor wiki and as Skully has said in the past, it's not a big deal. Life will go on no matter how people decide, yes? (Drops intellectual masturbation and returns to the physical kind) User:Mrthejazz/sig 01:48, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

Got the feeling that the decision was made a bit ago, this forum was just to vent and people to say stuff and that useless soup is very delicious with a bit of parmesean cheese and croutons!!! --ShabiDOO 04:34, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

Anarchy (talk) – contribs (new • del) • edit-count • block (rem • list) • all logs • groups • checkuser

Score: 1

1.  For. I like this guy a lot better than Nobody. —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 20:21, 21 May 2011

Okay, question

• Nevermind if we need one or not, could someone explain to me how voting is supposed to resolve this? We need someone to step up and do it; someone we vote for wouldn't necessarily be one who actually has the time or the will to do that. 1234 ~ 21:54, 21 May 2011
  • Well, should a person accept a nomination (which is part of what I described above) then obviously they're willing to devote that time. I don't understand what's even remotely confusing about that. The person that's going to be President of the United States has to put in the effort. That doesn't mean voting is a stupid way of getting there.~~ Sir Ljlego, GUN  [talk] 22:11, May 21, 2011 (UTC)
  • Just like any other position on the site, people are free to decline or accept nominations. It's not any different here. Why the heck would you think it's any different here? – Sir Skullthumper, MD (criticize • writings • critchat) 23:36 May 21, 2011
    • And how would these people know if they even have the time, for that matter? Sorry, but subjecting them to a popularity contest just doesn't seem the right way about it, especially as we only have maybe one or two users who could even do a decent job if they did have time, but they're not the most popular ones. Was Zim popular? Was SPIKE? 1234 ~ 00:08, 22 May 2011

Okay, fact

Right now there are a lot of users with their hand in the pie; I'm worrying that all of the fillings are starting to get squished and that it's just a matter of time before someone jams someone else's finger. A quick look at the UnNews pages shows that the list of users making changes since SPIKE left consists of:

1. Dexter111344
2. TheHumbucker
3. Jokerman
4. EMC
5. TKF
6. Socky
7. Kip the Dip
8. Aleister
9. Matt lobster
10. Funnybony
11. Ljlego
12. The Woodburninator
13. Cat the Colourful
14. TheHappySpaceman
15. Mnbvcxz
16. PF4Eva
17. An Ape that Only Exists on Thursdays

Tell me this won't lead to disagreement/edit wars/drama/wiki destruction/banning/pouting/vandalizing/suicide.

UnNews has always had an Editor in Chief and it's always been one of the, if not the, highest quality project on the whole of Uncyclopedia. I don't think this is a coincidence. With the direction of one person guiding UnNews, it's been one of the site's highlights due to its consistency, it's sense of purpose, and it's insistence on quality articles. Without this role, and with more and more people putting in their two cents about what UnNews should be about, this direction and consistency is lost, the high standard for contributions becomes subjective to the judgement of multiple people, and the project loses its greatest strengths. Someone or some specified group has got to be the end-all to discussions/conflict/drama regarding issues in the world of UnNews or else it will suffer. ~  Talk 23:58, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Will you take up this burden, oh Humbucker sir? -- T​K​F​​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​UU​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​CK 00:02, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

Or is this guy popular? TKF, is this guy popular? 1234 ~ 00:09, 22 May 2011

I'm worried about the time commitment. I can do it now, but looking a few months down the road, things don't seem so good. I'm interested in the possibility of a small committee, but would be willing to take up the role. ~  Talk 00:10, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

It's not a fucking popularity contest, it is a fucking vote. If people treat it like a fucking popularity contest, then yes, it is one. Otherwise it is a legitimate motherfucking vote and I'm getting really fucking tired of everyone pushing their downright political opinions on what should have been a very simple, very straightforward forum. I will say this only once: What the fuck is wrong with you people? Is everything a matter to get up in arms about from every possible angle? Can we actually band together and get shit done for once instead of using every event, no matter how insignificant or irrelevant it may be, to bitch about everything you think is wrong with Uncyclopedia? I'll tell you what's wrong with Uncyclopedia: it's the people who complain instead of helping. I remember when this place was a FUCKING community. – Sir Skullthumper, MD (criticize • writings • critchat) 00:12 May 22, 2011

What political opinions are you talking about? --EMC ^[TALK] 00:18 May 22 2011

You are either trolling, or an idiot. I'm not responding to this. – Sir Skullthumper, MD (criticize • writings • critchat) 00:20 May 22, 2011

Skully, nobody cares that you think over 90% of all government spending goes to abortions. MegaPleb • Dexter111344 • Complain here 00:22, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

Notice how I'm on top of that list and how Ape is on the bottom? That's the way it's always been. I don't think this is a coincidence. With the presence of one person with chloroform, my pornos have always been the highest quality on all the Internet. Without the chloroform, Ape would try to fight back and ruin the magic. tl;dr: I rape Ape all the time and the proof is online. MegaPleb • Dexter111344 • Complain here 00:15, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

That's actually our assigned positions in the upcoming human millepede. -- Kip the Egg Talk Works 09:10, May. 22, 2011

Hey, also

You know how this site has many active admins instead of a few so that at any given time a few are probably on, that way no one person has the burden of trying to run a huge part of this wiki by themselves? Why not do that with UnNews? We have 17 admins and 17 people who are editing UnNews. Pow. We have our "magic UnNews 17." I mean, yeah, they might disagree, but how many of them will be on at the same time? Jesus, give me a milkshake, cuz that idea should just about solve this, yeah? And make it more of a mentorship role. Alternatively, you can say I'm a jerk with terrible ideas, cuz man I'm open to anything. Also, I saw the new Pirates of the Carribean movie. Johnny Depp is so dreamy. User:Mrthejazz/sig 06:32, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

In Any Case

TheHumbucker has accepted the title in IRC, since he was going to win the vote anyway, and said some stuff about loving extra help around the place and not wanting to be called a czar. Still, he'll be the guy in charge of everything, whatever the hell he defines "everything" to be. -- T​K​F​​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​UU​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​CK 08:30, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

Rock and roll!!! --ShabiDOO 21:54, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

All of this while disregarding those of us who have expressed disagreement with the idea of an UnNews czar in the first place. --EMC ^[TALK] 00:30 May 23 2011

It was me who nommed THB, because he seems to be helpful and is tolerant with n00bs. -- Lollipop - CONTRIBS - WRITINGS - SHOP - Now adopting! - 00:44, 23 May 2011

Thoughts from an old Czar

Speaking as someone who used to be the "czar" of UnNews: it is a wholly self-appointed title. you do not vote on a Czar, you become one through your contributions to UnNews, the title is also non-exclusive and primarily janatorial; maintaining the Main Page and keeping all the templates up-to-date. The above vote is completely pointless, if you want to become the UnNews Czar, start editing UnNews and eventually, you will reach a point where you feel comfortable enough to refer to yourself as such, the transition is wholly organic; SPIKE was never appointed and I personally dislike the authoritarian tone that UnNews took on recently; the whole thing was far more open with little or no care about style or other such facetiousness. As it stands, UnNews doesn't seem to be neglected in any way and with the new skin, maintenance is significantly reduced. If things start to get stale then I'll certainly step in do something about it, and anyone else who feels capable of doing the same should do likewise. -- Prof. Olipro KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass) 08:32, May 24, 2011 (UTC)