Forum:The last will and testament of Nintendorulez

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I was asked to do this as a favor to Nin, who has been banned permanently. I'm not going to comment on whether or not he should be banned, nor will I make a scene. This was just a favor he asked me to do.

"Just recently, I got permabanned from Famine. I've discussed what I could possibly have done to warrant an infinite block on by emailing him, and the discussion is on my talk page. Basically, Famine says I complain too much and contribute nothing to the site, and as such he thinks he might as well ban me. I haven't complained about much recently, except for, surprise surprise, unfair bans for silly reasons. Ever since my name was finally removed from Euroipds, I've been content. But now I get a spontaneous ban out of the blue from events in the paast which I thought were long buried and dead. Did anybody ever come to me and say that I'd get banned for filing complaints in the forum? No, despite that note on my talk page stating that if I'm doing something wrong, you could just tell me rather than banning. All I've heard is an extremely vague "Don't be a dick". I always assumed complaints was the purpose of Miniluv. And now this is a infinite block, so I don't just get the chance to stop. Upon heading to IRC to ask why this was done, I've found that a good number of admins dislike me for my crimethink and want me gone for good. A number dislike me, but don't think an infinite ban is the way to go. Things appear to be devolving into quite an argument, and I'd rather not see a repeat of Drama. I'm sick of debating the reasons for this ridiculous ban, and I no longer want to be a part of a site with such ridiculous admins. But before I go for good, there's a few things I'd like to address:

Famine, I surrender. It's clear events in the past have led quite a few admins to dislike me, and I can never undo the damage. If you guys want me gone so badly that you have to make up such silly ban reasons, I'll go. I never intended any harm to anyone.

It's been brought up at Miniluv time and time again, we need concrete rules. Different admins have different interpretations of what's funny, what's stupid, and what's being a dick. If one admin doesn't take offense to something and ban you, another will. And there's no way of knowing you did something wrong until it's too late. We can all agree that vandalism is wrong, and definately being a dick, but from that point, it's unclear where the line is drawn. Those of us who aren't admins have no way of knowing what is and isn't acceptable until they get banned for it. If we establish some rules regarding what is and isn't an offense, and what isn't and isn't an appropriate block length for such an offense; that all admins and users can agree on, things will be much easier for everyone. Admins seem too unwilling to assume good faith, unlike Wikipedia, and Famine has accused me of trying to get a user on IRC banned when I asked if someone could post on his talk page regarding my sig. He was going to revert it himself, but I suggested just asking about it, since I've noticed Famine hates being reverted, even in other peoples' userspace.

Also, if I truly contribute 'nothing', or at least 'nothing worth the trouble I supposedly cause', then pull my contributions. I actually have written a lot, I just don't whore my pages constantly like most people. You don't want me because I supposedly haven't written any decent articles and ergo shouldn't be allowed to edit. In that case, huff those articles I wrote, since it's just hypocritical to keep them. I'd rather not see them on a site that's going to ban contributors just for using forums more often than mainspace. Here's a list of all the stuff I wrote and would like removed:

Babel:Rand - Still a work in progress, since subnested choose tags are an issue.

Eurg - Not the current article, but I did come up with the idea for the little buggers. (see Game:Zork/Invincible)

Mai∩ Page

Tourette's Syndrome, which later spawned our beloved Template:Expletive

Tourette's Syndrome/Lite2

Game:Do NOT click any links!/click and many of the following pages within.

Game:Game Online and many pages of it. More notable ones I did:

Game:Game Online/East and subpages

Game:Game Online/upupdowndownleftrightleftrightBAstart

Game:Game Online/wincheat

Game:Game_Online/Idiot - Ah, the generic death link for the obvious deaths. So each and every grue-related option doesn\'t require a unique page.

Game:Multiplayer TicTacToe

Game:Zork/Invincible

√

Ｙ (not to be confused with Y)

Images, especially chess pieces

Template:Grue

Template:Inquisition

Template:Not Funny

Uncyclopedia:Departure of Fun/Pong

Uncyclopedia:Departure of Fun/slots

UnNews:Gas stations begin giving away free gasoline

Burn 'em all if you're truly serious about an infinite block to rid the wiki of me.

Also, I'd like to ask what the hell happened to my sig. Famine just decided that upon banning me, he'd also dick around with my userspace. I've seen plenty of annoying sigs, which is why I chose plain ol' blue links in the very style laid out under Order of Uncyclopedia. If I can't see my old posts signed with my signature, I'd at least like to know why Famine thinks he can go around changing other peoples' sigs.

Finally, I'd just like to say goodbye. I know a lot of people don't like me, but there's quite a number of people I've had good times with on this once-great site and its lovely community. Especially BENSON. It's not even his fault he just got an infinite block as well. The fault lies squarely with me and the other BENSONites, who kept spilling things over into the VD. I'd like to sincerely apologize for this, and how an innocent user that many liked is now gone. Sure, he used sockpuppets in the past, but he did his time for it. It's unfair to ban BENSON, as he's completely harmless, and one of the funniest users around. And before any shit hits the fan, I'd like to ask that everyone just calmly and rationally consider what I've said here, and not resort to flames of any other Drama. I've already inadvertantly triggered one forum topic so chaotic it caused some admins to leave the site. I don't want to see it happen again. And don't bother debating my block, because I'm not coming back either way. The abuses of power from admins have just gone on too long, and this site has suffered much. And it's clear that my being around only agitates a number of people.

Goodbye,

∩INT∑ENDORUL∑Z (TALK) NS GOTM 666 WORSHIP BENSON OR DIE!

PS: Just to reiterate, no Drama, for the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Always keep a cool head and think rationally about things.}}

Well, that's what he had to say. Maybe I'll actually read this if I have time. --Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 23:56, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and even if he's unbanned, he says he's probably not coming back. --Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 00:00, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

General reaction

What a shitty will. I didn't get any money or anything. -- » Sir Savethemooses Grand Commanding Officer ... holla atcha boy» 00:54, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, where's my 20 grand and a iMac? --» >UF|TLK|▋» 01:04, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I was totally expecting to get his collection of original Patsy Cline 45's.  c • > • cunwapquc? 04:59, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, he made ME do his dirty work and he didn't even leave ME anything... --Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 07:58, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

You too, huh? Well, shee-it! It's unfortunate that this is happening of course, and I still like the guy... but more importantly, I have to wonder - is this a new form of Big Production Number that I should add to the article on Wikideath? Or does it fall within one of the existing categories?  c • > • cunwapquc? 08:11, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm, at least I'd have thought he'd start his own Wiki and call it Bensonpedia.org or something. He basically did a Martin Luther here and nailed his treatises to the door of the Uncyclopedian Church. I know that each admin has a different idea of the rules and enforce it differently. That is sort of the way police officers work as well. Some admins let things slide, and others don't let anything slide. Nin was funny in some of his comments, but he did start his own flamewars. Maybe too many flamewars and Famine got tired of it and permabanned him? --Lt. Sir Orion Blastar (talk) 15:53, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, he was the source for several jokes that I found funny. --Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 15:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

No denying that. Famine was the one that banned him. If I was an admin, I'd just leave a note on his talk page as a warning before I ban him if he keeps doing it later. My ban wouldn't have been a permaban maybe for a few days or a week or two. Just so he gets the idea not to do it again. He wouldn't learn from a permaban, because he could not come back and just go away upset. I am not trying to second guess Famine, and I admit I don't know all the facts in this case. Just saying the way I might have done the lesson. --Lt. Sir Orion Blastar (talk) 17:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

One thing to note, this hasn't turned into an unholy flamewar. --Uncyclon - Do we still link to BENSON? 03:06, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I was kinda hoping we'd get a joke out of this, too. --Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 03:17, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Why did the Nintendorulz cross the road?! Famine sent him there! *Laugh track*. --Uncyclon - Do we still link to BENSON? 05:44, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Huh! And all this time I thought he was just stapled to the chicken. . .  Sir Tooltroll, Esq. CUN • Eh? • Oh! • UnTunes! •• I my cat! 11:15, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

No, Nintendorulz crossed the road to take a Wii in the bushes because the bathroom was closed for repairs. --Lt. Sir Orion Blastar (talk) 03:07, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I say justice has been served. The admin known as Famine clearly is a undisputed expert on the subject of "not contributing anything" and therefor is the only despot who can, in his almighty wisdom ban useless uninsulting free thinking free speech whiny complaint uttering people like Nin. -- Vosnul 16:30, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

My 2 Cents.

In my humble opinion, you ought to be ashamed of yourselves. I would make a speech about the need for clear guidelines, which should not be necessary if the admins sucked less. But I'm lazy. goshzillacorrespondence 01:36, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

04:27, 19 January 2007 Zombiebaron blocked "Goshzilla (contribs)" with an expiry time of infinite (claiming that "...the admins suck...".) --The Zombiebaron 04:29, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

... But a lack of clear guidelines is what separate us from the animals other wikis. If we had a billion strict rules like the bureaucratic nightmare that Wikipedia is, Uncyclopedia as we know it would become a police state. -- §. | WotM | PLS | T | C | A 04:41, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

You got the nod, Zombiebaron? Congrats! --Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 07:43, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Crazy. --The Zombiebaron 09:44, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

In my humble opinion, I agree w/Goshzilla. So it's his opinion, really. Oh! Except for the bit about guidelines. I don't like rules. Nin will be missed.--Sir Modusoperandi ^Boinc! 14:03, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree that Nin will be missed. However, talking with the parties in question, this is not something that is going to be resolved easily, so it might end up just staying this way.  ::sighs::--<<>> 14:05, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

His being banned has its pros and its cons, but let's just put it behind us. K? --Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 19:02, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

You won't have old Nintendorulez to kick around anymore

By the way, Game Online < everything else in the Game namespace. Except, of course, for this horrible thing. --L 04:02, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

For the record, the article Do NOT click any links! made Top10 of 2005, and many have told me that their favorite part was the clicking game attached, so I don't think that can be included as being "one of the worst things at the Game section."--<<>> 04:51, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Uh oh... Did you say 2005? Your years are off. -- §. | WotM | PLS | T | C | A 07:31, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Riiiiight.... next you'll be telling me this isn't the year of our lord 2435.--<<>> 13:30, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Lord? don't you mean the Bomb? Glory be to the Bomb --Olipro Anchor KUN (Harass) 16:36, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Didn't I SAY bomb? Oh well, same thing, I guess... both are working toward Armageddon...--<<>> 19:15, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

One admin's POV

I support Famine and his reasoning. This is a difficult decision to make because it's one of those composite ones, and most people (including a majority of admins) cannot comprehend the effects of habitual offenders that show a distinct pattern of troublemaking without regard to the issue at hand. It's harder when you add in the fact that some might have been users for a long time and their edits are mostly alright. It's easy with a new anonymous vandal, but the shit-throwing monkey squad shows up the moment you ban even a highly divisive troublemaker that has been around long enough to have a name. It's as bad as wikipedia, maybe worse, because there isn't a *shudder* ArbCom to make these hard decisions, and everyone has to give whoever does it a bunch of crap. Nintendorulez has been in need of a permaban since about a month or two after he started here, but he did the limbo under the banstick, and only got hit with it a handful of times.

I'm very unhappy with the undermining of authority and disregard for the site mission in the interest of people that do little-to-nothing to advance the site and increase the quality. I'm extremely unhappy with the divisions in the admin team as a result of our "people's choice" admin and others that are softies for people who have nicks they've seen for a while. Should that give someone perpetual immunity?

Hell, he totally fails the most basic directive on uncyclopedia:

1. Be funny and not just stupid.
2. Don't be a dick.

Look how quiet and semi-friendly the site has been since then. The only other reason there have been arguments has been over defense of other worthless gobshites that keep just barely avoiding the banstick and inspiring others to do the same, because we're too hamstrung by divisions and argumentative idiots that thrive of argument alone, not even caring what the argument is about.

I'm tired of people trying to turn this place into ED. » Brig Sir Dawg | t | v | c » 2007.01.19.18:16

It's a shame that Nin got permabanned. It's a shame Benson was temporarily permabanned. It's a shame some admins go around wielding their banstick like their opinion is the only one that counts. I for one thought Nin was a pretty funny guy. Sure he may have complained a lot and had a lot to say about euroipods, but last time I checked this was an encyclopedia that anyone could edit. I can't understand how his ignorable complaining warranted a permaban. As far as contributing goes, he wrote UnNews:Gas stations begin giving away free gasoline which imo was funny. But wait, I forgot that these days if you don't contribute actively and constantly then you don't have a right to stay here. Since when did we start putting contribution quotas on users? He wrote atleast one good article which should be more than enough to warrant his staying, especially since there are so many users who come here, vandalize something, and then do fuck all. As far as the most basic directive of uncyclopedia

1. Be funny and not just stupid.
2. Don't be a dick.

He passes both of them. He's left funny comments and wrote atleast one funny article (I know there's more but I'm just using that as an example), and I'm sure I'm not the only one who found atleast some of his comments and articles to be funny. And I wouldn't even begin to call him a Dick. Sure he was persistent and a boarderline pest, but atleast he doesn't go around handing out permabans. I don't see how you can so definitively say he fails both of them when they're mostly opinionated judgements. Some rules are fine, and honestly needed. But the more you keep cracking down on everything you don't like around this place the more it's becoming an administrator centered Wikipedia, and last time I checked uncyc was created to be a parody of Wikipedia, not it's twin. --Anyone 18:33, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

You fail to understand the most basic rule - You can be a dick, but only if you're sufficiently funny to completely offset your dickery, plus some. If you're mostly a dick and only sometimes funny, eventually you'll get banned. The rest isn't worth mentioning because it's the usual absurd nonsense arguments that you spew forth. » Brig Sir Dawg | t | v | c » 2007.01.19.18:49

Agreed, but again, he wasn't a dick by everyone's standards. Nonsense arguments that I spew forth? Are you kidding me? Sounds like a cop-out. --Anyone 18:53, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Let's just fuhgeddaboudit. --Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 18:46, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Crazyswordsman knows whudheeztalkin'bout. Seriously, some debates aren't worth perpetuating. If Nintendorulez is serious about not coming back, then unbanning him wouldn't make any difference, even if all the admins were to suddenly agree that he's good enough, which is not likely to happen. The best option is to drop the issue entirely, regardless of personal feelings. Consider the consequences of continuing this debate. They aren't good ones. --»The Acceptable Cainad (Fnord) 19:06, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Euroipods. Nuff said. --» >UF|TLK|▋» 21:41, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

You guys are right. I'm just going to roll over and take this in the butt while Nin gets banned for a stupid reason. I just hope the next permaban given out isn't just as unjustifiable. --Anyone 19:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Please, hold on a minute. You're not taking anything in the posterior unless you put yourself in that position. Nin's banning doesn't hurt you, or any of us for that matter. Believe it or not, we can agree to disagree on this, and not create a problem. If we put our egos aside for just a moment, we realize that nothing of value is to be gained from this argument. Remember, Nin says he doesn't want to come back; this is as good a reason as any to leave the situation as it is. We can all just walk away from this right now, and go back to creating articles. Don't think of this as a personal attack, because it isn't. I don't disagree with you because I don't like you, I disagree in the way a Quaker would: "Why fight?" We can only generate more resentment and bitterness by continuing this argument; I suggest the topic be dropped, with neither victory nor defeat for either side. --»The Acceptable Cainad (Fnord) 19:36, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Well in my humble opinion humor (or humour as it is called in the UK) is relative to the observer. Some things like The Three Stooges and "Slapstick" comedy in general is funny because it is so stupid. For example, people like me see Moe slap Curly and Larry around and laugh, and others might not find it funny because it is violent. Another example is Charlie Chaplin eating his shoe because of how poor he has become, which I find funny and others may not find funny. To use some modern examples, the Scary Movie series, Mad TV, Dave Chappelle people may find funny or unfunny based on their points of view. Even David Letterman, Conan O'Brian and Jay Leno use that "funny because it is so stupid" sort of humor. In the UK, the BBC has a show called "Brilliant" and one of the repeating sketches is a man trying to sit down in a seat somewhere, like a soccer stadium and the guy next to him says "Oi! Seat's taken mate!" and people laugh at that, and they keep repeating variations of it at different locations, with the same phrase spoken over and over again. In Pop Culture, originally The Rocky Horror Picture Show was not meant to be funny, until the fan participation made it funny. Then Mystery Science Theater 3000 did the same thing to bad Sci-Fi movies. Disrespect to the admins and other users; however, might be seen as bad even if it is funny. I got demoted for biting the noob, and I was just joking around with the noob using tourrettes syndrome style comments, but I took my punishment because it was possible that I was doing something wrong, and didn't realize it so I took responsibility for my actions and behaviors and learned from them. Now I don't joke around with the noobs like that any more. Anyway just my two cents worth of a rant. --Lt. Sir Orion Blastar (talk) 20:21, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Orion: again you provide an excellent example of how to handle disagreement. Find where you might have been wrong, and improve it. The one consistent in this whole year-plus long debate has been that, no matter how the admin reacts, be it self-reflecting or bitterly ignoring, Nin never, EVER admitted he was wrong -- not even a little bit. He was always "just stating his case," then "just restating his case" over and over and over again. If Nin thought he was right, it was impossible to reason with him, and it was impossible for him to realize that sometimes, it's just not worth it, and it's time to move on. Combine this with the fact that he always had AT LEAST one crusade, often many, going on at the site at any given time, and this got really frustrating really fast for the admins. He always said "just let me know if I'm doing something banworthy," then, when we did, he'd argue with us about it. He argued non-stop for over a year about Euroipods (through multiple bans) until we finally gave in, then he immediately started arguing about Benson. Then he started in on the new admins. While I wouldn't have banned him myself, I totally agree with Famine that enough was enough.--<<>> 23:14, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I feel sorry for Nin that he couldn't admit to possibly being wrong. He is missing such a learning experience because he never admits to his mistakes. Being human means we learn from our mistakes, it is a part of the human design. It is like arguing over a teacher about a letter grade, instead of figuring out what you did wrong so you can learn from it and earn a higher grade later on in the class. Most of life is trial and error, because life never came with an instruction manual. Some religious people might argue that the Bible, Torah, Koran, etc are instruction manuals, but they were written long ago before a lot of the modern problems came along, yet they can teach us the critical thinking skills we need to solve the modern problems, but most of us religious people are too busy arguing over what a holy book is trying to say, rather than what it teaches. I was young once, and I used to have a mindset like Nin has, thought I knew everything and thought I was never wrong. Turned out I had a mental illness that caused me to think that way. It is so hard to overcome it, but I am a perfectionist, and I look for ways to improve myself. Sometimes I am too hard on myself and it gets me depressed. Anyway whatever Nin has, it sounds like a self-destructive cycle, and I hope he seeks professional help about it. If I seem wise or knowledgeable, it is only because of all the mistakes I've made and how I learned from them. I am not really wise or knowledgeable, just experienced. --Lt. Sir Orion Blastar (talk) 03:31, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Orion, this is uncalled for. There's no need to psychoanalyze the guy just because he's had some disagreements with the admins - plenty of people get caught up in all this wiki stuff, and get pissed off when things don't go their way, without having psychological disorders. So please, cool it with that kind of talk, OK? Please?  c • > • cunwapquc? 03:52, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Way to go, SU. I was just about to get him to read my palm; there's something wrong. My wookie line never crosses my cheese line. That can't be good.--Sir Modusoperandi ^Boinc! 03:56, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Your wookie line crosses your cheese line? I'd tell you what it means, but SU took away my fortune teller's license. --Lt. Sir Orion Blastar (talk) 22:21, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

You mean that crayon and construction paper monstrosity with the signatures in macaroni? SU took that because he's jealous of the gold star that it got from the teacher. Or maybe as revenge for you suckering him into eating that bug.--Sir Modusoperandi ^Boinc! 01:48, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I made my own fortune teller's license and the macaroni people signed it with their macaroni ink, which looks like macaroni. Teacher gave me a gold star and a happy face on it, which made it official. I did sucker him into eating a bug. The conversation went like this SU "Orion I dare you to eat this bug." OB "I won't eat that bug, you eat that bug!" SU "No, Orion you eat that bug." OB "No Some User, I will eat that bug." SU "Ahah, you can't fool me Orion, I'll eat that bug, not you!" OB "Ok, have it your way Some User." I learned that trick from Bugs Bunny. --Lt. Sir Orion Blastar (talk) 03:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, but I notice telltale signs of this sort of stuff and I have a lot of experience in that area. I'll lay off, but I was trying to help Nin, if he had a problem. I went through some bad stuff early in my life and also not so long ago, and I wanted others to avoid those kinds of things. --Lt. Sir Orion Blastar (talk) 16:26, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Nerd unforgettingness syndrome

Very funny indeed. Nerds are those kind of people that have social orgasms by remembering a particular episode of the second season of Star Trek (presented in may, 5, 1968, they can tell exactly). Or a round of Dungeons and Dragons they played with their friends in 1989. I just can't have enough cultural relativism to understand this Benson stuff. Almost two years ago a guy enters this forum spreading self-congratulatory crap and so a bunch of nerds obsessively keeps on trying to keep this joke alive. Almost two years ago a guy start a flamewar because of an admin powerjoke and so he was still whining for removing his name from this obscure joke turned in-joke. And now our current discussion proves that this Nin guy is a troublemaker even after he's banned. Can't you nerds just forget old fads as normal persons would do? -- herr doktor needsAshuttle  [scream!] 19:31, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Not saying I'm not a nerd myself - or, more properly, geek, as I know what is having a sexual life. Just trying to act as a voice of reason - and shame. -- herr doktor needsAshuttle  [scream!] 19:54, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Ernesto "Nin" Guevara

Anyone, let me put it this that way: For over an year the guy has been choosing to place himself in the spotlight of maaaaaany crossfires. Eventually, he got shot. It was going to happen sooner or later, I'm surprised it wasn't sooner. Now, if you think he got shot for fighting for freedom, truth and justice you can put his picture next to your Che Guevara's poster. Others may see him as just a dick, not a Che Guevara but more like a disruptive troublemaker expelled from school. In either case, he brought it upon himself, the perman ban is the predictable outcome of his actions.---Asteroid B612 (aka Rataube) - Ñ 19:50, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

(Sigh) Che Guevara WAS a dick... -- herr doktor needsAshuttle  [scream!] 19:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I disagree, but I see you get the point.---Asteroid B612 (aka Rataube) - Ñ 19:55, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

But Che was a dick. ~Sir Rangeley GUN WotM UotM EGA +S (talk) 20:01, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Then you can make Nin into the new icon.---Asteroid B612 (aka Rataube) - Ñ 20:05, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Don't make me hate the Deceased... -- herr doktor needsAshuttle  [scream!] 20:15, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Ratube: You're missing the main theme that I'm getting at here. I don't agree with the ban on Nin, that's it, period. One admin shouldn't have the right to immediately permaban a user who's been with us so long, atleast not without a vote like Benson got. Furthermore, I only slightly agree that because Nin isn't coming back, we should drop it. But what I don't understand is how you all can let Nin get banned and think it will be the last time this happens. So while you think of Nin in a Che Guevara metaphorical sense, I see him as a Poland. --Anyone 20:40, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Ohh, for gawd's sake... -- 20:47, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Immediatly permaban? Well, that's the point, it was not immediate, it's been over an year of tireless flaming. If you play with flames you must know you may get burned. I don't see him as Che (that was ironic of course), nor as Polland, but more like the little child who wont stop provoking his elder brother and then claims not to undestund why he got punched in the face, or the troublemaker expelled from school I mentioned before. In this scenario you and other users are being the clueless mother defending the cute little bastard.---Asteroid B612 (aka Rataube) - Ñ 20:59, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Since this doesn't seem to be going away

I don't personally agree that Nin had to be banned, BUT, 1) it was a completely reasonable decision 2) the decision was completely within Famine's powers and perogatives to make, and 3) Famine's decision thus deserves 100 percent deference. Nin wasn't banned because he started drama, he wasn't banned because he disagreed with the admins, he wasn't even banned because of Euroipods or Benson or any one incident, Nin was banned because he displayed an unflagging attitude problem that caused him to be difficult and contemptuous toward other people in far more many little ways than can be counted. Nin was the sort of person who could revert an admin doing something important multiple times and then ask admin why the admin was so stupid. You could tell him, "don't do this or I will permaban you unless you talk to me" and he'd do it anyway without talking to you. Nin didn't do specifically dickish things, he just was a dick. Even if the community at large doesn't see it, that eventually becomes a problem, and in order to deal with that the admin who encounters such negative behavior has to be able to wield the threat of the banstick without having Russia and China sitting on the Security Council with a veto.

Anyone who is worried that this crackdown on Nin portents the ability of an admin to ban them for no reason doesn't know how bad Nin got at times. Basically I can only think of one other person at this site that even aproaches Nin, and he seems to know that he's being a dick, and knows how to stop if he needs.---Rev. Isra (talk) 21:05, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Anddd...

I will first say that I agreed with some of what nintendo said, and that he was infact right on occasion. While I found euroipods funny, it did not get featured by the community. I dont like the idea that admins, however well respected they may be, can just feature stuff on a whim. Featuring articles is an honor bestowed by the community through democratic means, and I think it should always be like that. Further, when he requested his name be removed, I think that is enough to warrant its removal as a common sense act of good faith. But he handled it poorly, and constantly displayed a bad attitude. Its not that he was persistent or wouldnt drop it, when someone thinks they are right they almost always persist even if others disagree vehemently. And people in this community should feel they have the ability to raise issues, and raise them again, if they truly are concerned about something. We shouldnt be afraid that complaining could just be labeled "bitching" or "whining" and therefore warrant a ban. This was my original concern with seeing nintendo banned.

But from talking to Rataube and Dawg, this case doesnt fit in the cookie cutter mold of someone raising issues persistently. It fits into a different mold entirely, one of a member who persistently caused bitter personal problems out of a genuinely bad attitude. Just talking to him last night in the IRC channel, it strained me to agree with him simply because his entire attitude struck me as so self pitying that I felt dirty to come to his defense. While I think a bit of scapegoating has gone on here, as it takes two to tango in cases of drama, the ban was done in the desire to sort of remove this aspect of our community to let us move on to what we are supposed to be doing, namely having fun through humor. This is a good goal, but the ban really hasnt gotten us there yet. I would like to hope that from this entire discussion, we can sort of move on. I dont think people should lose sleep over this. If this becomes precedent, thats when we should cry foul, but I am willing to beleive the reasons put forward in this specific case, due to its genuine uniqueness. ~Sir Rangeley GUN WotM UotM EGA +S (talk) 21:28, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry All

I don't mean to stir up drama and excitement, but the longer I'm here, the more I realize that I've got the thick skin to take a bit of heat for doing dirty deeds. It wasn't an accident that I posted the entirety of Nin's and my conversation on his talk page - it was for the site to see. Because ultimately, it's up to the users of this site to judge (in a reasonable, non-flame-filled, non-bitchy way) what I do.

I know that some of you agree, and that some of you disagree, and I thank all most of you for posting here in a such a calm and reasoned fashion. This is the sort of rational, reasonable debate that I don't mind seeing at any time.

From my point of view, "infinite" can either mean "fuggetaboutit" or "I'll decide when it's up". I was considering the latter when I instituted the ban. It seems to have been taken as "fuggetaboutit" by all involved, even with the knowledge that unbanning is only a click away.

I'm not here to preach or defend, only to issue one statement. That is:

I'm worried that we're moving away from our mission here. I'm worried that we've turned our gaze from writing satire to forum whoring, drama-queening, shitty-ass-non-satire writing, and other such trivialities. The only thing that sets this website apart from the hordes of cookie-cutter, lame-ass, emo-filled websites all over the planet is our focus on creating encyclopedic articles filled with misinformation and lies.

There are tons of forums filled with crazies, cults, and fan clubs. There are tons of websites dedicated to drama and attention whoring. There is only one dedicated to wiki-satire, and that's us. I will tear and claw at anything which significantly depresses our ability to function in that way, until my sysop is ripped from my chest cavity and inserted into my head through a new 4" orifice.

There are a thousand places to be a drama queen and a forum-whore. If you want to do that, go to one of those places. This isn't one of them. We do something different here. We write satire.

Now everybody go write something for the PLS. That's an order. Flood that sucker with new articles. Sir Famine, Gun ♣ Petition » 01/20 00:12

Now just how the heck are we supposed to spook our kids to bed with "...or Famine'll getcha!" now? How come when the drama pot boils over, the banstick is used, and someone points the drippy eye of dissatisfaction at you, you go an write a perfectly reasonable nonpsychotic letter like this? Most of us, in your position, would just pop and write some rambling paragraph about nothing in particular, or use our big, moist puppy-dog eyes to get out of things. Except boxes. Eyes don't help there.--Sir Modusoperandi ^Boinc! 02:36, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I feel compelled to finish my new article, in spite of the recent events that I am so offended by (and want to ban a large number of people for). Even my vow to never contribute to the site again due to the events of yesterday melt away from reading Famine's manifesto on the subject.

Maybe we have some hope, provided people will quit supporting the drama queens and forum whores who just fill the site with tons of muck and contribute nothing else of value. The VD used to be a place where we discussed positive humour-related things, came to positive agreements, and made the site better. Maybe this format is bad, as it attracts forum whoring, drama queens, and the general stupid associated with all forums, rather than the relatively positive communication seen on most talk pages.

I'm for a back-to-basics movement on uncyclopedia, which includes making the hard tough love decisions for the greater good vs. a single user or a silly in-joke. » Brig Sir Dawg | t | v | c » 2007.01.20.05:30

Most of us just try to keep our heads down and write funny shit (most of the time, we've all got a little Drama/whore inside). It's tough supressing the inner drama/whore (I didn't used to, but now I go so far as to type up a forum reply, get up, have some milk, then come back to see if it's whorey or drama-laden before I hit "Save page"). By "milk" I mean beer.--Sir Modusoperandi ^Boinc! 05:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I think User:Dawg has a very good point here. Changing the Village Dump into a board-like forum made it more manageable and easier to find things, but that also made it more attractive as a means of getting attention. Since they're separate articles, each forum page can be added to a watch-list individually, and they also appear in boldface in Recent Changes... That makes it easier to know when something you're interested in is being talked about, and to what extent. Even people with good intentions sometimes use sensational titles and subheadings to get more eyeballs, and people with bad intentions have now realized that forum pages are far less likely to get deleted on sight than the usual two-line article about how someone or other is teh ghey. In a way, it's like we expanded a nice backyard swimming hole into a giant amusement park, which quickly got filled with hucksters and street mimes... I'm not saying it was a bad decision to do it, but people always find ways to abuse new innovations! Take the whole wiki concept in general, for example.  c • > • cunwapquc? 06:10, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm trying to improve things in a lead by example way. This is UnNews month, with at least one article and preferably three each day for all of January. And I implore you to all to write good and make me laugh out loud at work and lose my job (again).

It's only on Uncyclopedia that I'm all sweetness and light and flowers and trees and fluffy bunnies. You ask on Wikpedia, they know what a flaming arsehole from Hell I am when I get riled - David Gerard 23:06, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Three a day? Good god, man! One a week is plenty enough. You'll sprain something. On a side note, we're scheduling your intervention. What's a good day for you?--Sir Modusoperandi ^Boinc! 03:13, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

We still need to maintain a strong communial bond.

I agree with Dawg. Still, I don't want this to break up our community. We should still try to maintain a strong community bond so we don't end up hating each other's guts. If there's anything positive that came out of this, it's that we're not divided (except on the BENSON thing, which is, I think, just side nonsense and nothing serious). While we definitely should try to get back to writing articles (which isn't a problem, as we now have more featured content than ever before), we should also strive to stay together as a community and support each other, even those we disagree with. The complainers, the banners, and everyone in between. --Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 06:40, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

That's too bad about Nin, but at least he's moved on to bigger and better things (I can only assume). But Crazyswordsman's got a point, it's times like these we learn to live again <guitar ensues> it's times like these we give and give again, <more guitar playing, now drums> it's times like these we...fuck it, you get what I'm saying. Let's just cast aside our differences, cause in the end, we're all united by one universal factor: we have absolutely nothing better to do. All this place really needs is some good brotherly love and mutual support. And with that, I call for a group hug. --Señor DiZtheGreat  CUN AOTM ( Worship me!) (Praise me!) (Join me!) AMEN! 20:43, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Compromise?

I think this is becoming one of those discussions that never ends. So lets try to end before it does. Here's my idea:

• shorten his ban him for 6 months to a year. I think that will be enough for a nonvandal
• Allow him to contribute uncyclopedia but have it be done though emails.--Scott 22:59, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Will he agree to this, or will he feel insulted that he has to access the Wiki through email and everyone else is able to access it via the web? The better compromise would be to create the Bensonpedia and register bensonpedia.org and give Nin access to that to worship Benson and write whatever he wants on it. Then the whole BHOP including Benson would move to Bensonpedia.org because Benson is better than us, so he deserves his own Wiki to spread his message out without the interference of the infidels who do not believe that Benson is better than them. --Lt. Sir Orion Blastar (talk) 23:28, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I say we make him wear a russian hat and stand on one foot while contributing. That will teach him. ~Sir Rangeley GUN WotM UotM EGA +S (talk) 23:44, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

We should have him mow Chron's lawn for a month and then survive a killer bee swarm. --Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 23:53, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Make Nin an admin and then force him to deal with people who are vandals just like him, and then he will learn just how hard the job of being an admin is, and how his behavior and actions affect people. After getting burnt out as an admin, he will learn his lesson in behaving better on the wiki. Then he will beg to become a normal user again and apologize and say "I am so sorry, I had no idea I did things that where that bad. Please forgive me." --Lt. Sir Orion Blastar (talk) 23:20, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's striking to see you guys after 4 years, still arguing about the same issues, the dutch Onziclopedie encounters after half a year. we are setting up guidelines, that's why I'm watching this discussion. I don't know what i am more afraid of: explicit rules or admin-congsis. I think the former. Rules are unbendable, admins are flexible. There is no time to be rigid, because everything changes so fast. That's why we're going to make some guidelines instead of a lot of specified rules (only a minimum.) We go by The Two Golden Rules and will see it implicitly like this: The users of the site are guests at a party and the admins are the hosts, with a responsibility to keep the party going. People are expected to behave like in a public place and nobody came to the party to start wars over the placing of the tables, or the drinks served. As the admins are responsible, they can throw people out if they spoil the party for others. But an eternal ban is more like a show of power than a reasonable solution and out of proportion. I am against it, like I am against the death-penalty. But as there are nu rules and human actions, there will always be a lot of discussion which costs alot of energy.(better used for articles). I guess it's a price we'll have to pay. the art is to keepthe white noise as little as possible an find new entries for articles. Greetings and wisdom in your decisions. D.G.Neree 00:27, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, but perma-bans aren't necessarily permanent. As noted above, most perma-bans will be lifted if the bannee makes an effort. "Perma-ban" is adminish for "shock and awe."  Sir Tooltroll, Esq. CUN • Eh? • Oh! • UnTunes! •• I my cat! 11:13, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Damn foreigners. Always with their intellect and reasonable attitudes and dispassionate point of view and good English... makes me irritable. --»The Acceptable Cainad (Fnord) 08:29, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Toda sua base está pertencendo para nós. :p -- herr doktor needsAshuttle  [scream!] 17:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

well, its always nice to be able to pinpoint exactly what the problem is and then leave without giving a solution. &thanx for ze complaments on my Goud Britisj. Cheers, D.G.Neree 17:58, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

BULLSHIT!

This is complete and utter bullshit. The exact same thing happened to me. It took me ages to get my account back, too. My advice to Nintendorulez:

Hang in there, bud. And don't expect to come back anytime soon. I completely gave up for months before I asked to be unblocked and it happened in less than a day. You don't need to leave forever. I like you. The wiki likes you. Don't get yourself down. And don't forget to hang on, bud.

~ Unflameviper ^{Who's a Peach?} 22:20, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations. You just won Pyromaniac of the Year. -- 23:03, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

You should change your sig. It looks too much like Splaka's, and when I see any trace of Splaka I get this odd impulse to KILL KILL KILL. ~ Unflameviper ^{Who's a Peach?} 23:16, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

No, it doesn't. --Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 01:19, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

This is Splarka's sig. This is not. Any questions? —Hinoa talk.kun 01:41, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, does it seem that Flameviper has not learned his lesson and is intentionally causing trouble? --General Insineratehymn 01:45, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Why don't you just ban him again? --Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 01:50, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Because you touch yourself at night. ~ Unflameviper ^{Who's a Peach?} 13:26, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Of course I do! I wash my face every night, and take a shower every morning. :) --Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 16:24, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

>_<;;; ~ Unflameviper ^{Who's a Peach?} 20:40, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Goodbye

I will miss you. 02:48, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

shame on you

Shame on you all! I can't help blushing reading this page. You are all a bunch of egocentric misfits, especially the ones who find it necessary to kick an already dead corpse. Shame on you self-indulging, self-content egomaniac cowards, with your pathetic girly signatures! D.G.Neree 19:41, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Seems to me you turned Uncyclopedia into one big Vanity-site, where the only ones allowed to speak are the admins'ass-lickers. D.G.Neree 19:44, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Did you all start to believe in this Order of-shit? You are not Knights, Grand Masters, Commissars or whatever you like to call yourselves in your megalomaniac delusions. Seems to me the joke is turning more sour with every editor leaving the site. But behind all those beautiful signatures and heroic nicknames i see now, hide the same narrow-minded & frustrated people you find in a dead end street pub on a monday night. That will be it. D.G.Neree 19:53, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Ah you are just upset that the rest of us have bigger manhoods than you, and don't have any problems getting dates or sex. We are all too busy with personal lives to care at the level you seem to care about. I know I am not a real Knight, and not a real Officer in the Royal Army, and not a member of the Order of Uncyclopedia or Grand Pooba Emperor of the New World Illuminati and it makes me polish my monocle out of habit because of the Super Taco Bowl Sundays and Bingo Game Thursdays that we run to raise money with our fake charities and dummy corporations like Microsoft that we secretly use to control the world by releasing piece of crap software like Windows Vista and force everyone to use it, so they'll have security holes big enough to fly a Space Shuttle through and it allows us to steal all of their secrets and then post those secrets on Uncyclopedia using special software to disguise them as jokes, and then threaten to blackmail them over it, and if they pay we VFD the article, and if they don't pay we VFH the article for everyone to see. That means that Nintendorulez had discovered our plan, and we were forced to discredit and ban him as a result. That only narrow-minded, self-centered, and egotistical maniacs such as ourselves could think up such a brilliant and dastardly plan. Then again, there really is no cabal on Uncyclopedia, so none of that is really true. Yet if you really want to know the truth about everything in this forum thread, it can best be summed up with two words: Nobody Cares! --Lt. Sir Orion Blastar (talk) 03:23, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Could you be a bit more explicit about what you're talking about? The Nin issue (which, if you're not a seriously longtime user here, you honestly probably wouldn't have an accurate perspective of), which was buried until you revived it? Admin arrogance, user arrogance, authoritarial hierarchy? —rc (t) 20:02, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Read his comments above, he's been here for 4 years, longest-time user on this website, must know what he is talking about.---Asteroid B612 (aka Rataube) - Ñ 06:01, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Tribute User Accounts

I must admit that NintendoRulez is a catchy user name. I will miss him a lot. Maybe we can create some tribute sockpuppets in his honor? GenesisDoes, SonyOwns, SegaPlaya, PlayNation, GamecubeDude, WiiWonker, XBoxXtreme, or maybe some other name? --Lt. Sir Orion Blastar (talk) 21:34, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Someone did come by with a similar username. But frankly the closest username to Nin's in my opinion is Squiggle, as what set Nin apart was his use of unicode in his sig, something Squiggle took to the next level. Also, I'm adding this to best forum topics ever if you don't mind. --Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 22:03, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

LORD FLUFFY

I don't know if it's been suggested (due to the fact that I can't be bothered to read the entire discussion), but perhaps there should be a "Users In Need Of Bannination" area similar to VFD, and admins should vote, with a majority needed for a ban. This would really only apply to bans over a certain amount of time- perhaps a month- or consecutive bans, of course, because such a system would become unwieldly if trivialities were set to a vote by all admins. I think this would be fairer, and tend to balance the points of view of the various admins. Just a thought. Oh yes, and to placate any admins who may dislike this idea:

LORD FLUFFY, WHO RAINS FIRE FROM THE HEAVENS, HATH GIVEN THEE THE GIFT OF PIE.

--Lord Fluffy who rains fire from the heavens 23:07, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, forgot to mention: I think that ALL users deserve at least one warning that they are in for a permanent ban, with specific description of what they are doing to warrant such action. --Lord Fluffy who rains fire from the heavens 23:14, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Please understand, Lord Fluffy etc., that Nintendorulez was, despite his redeeming qualities, a troublemaker. Even I, who writes the Chronicles of BENSON, found his obsessiveness to be in need of mitigation. He repeatedly insisted that a separate forum for nonsense be created, so much so that it became clear that he was no longer joking about preserving the sanctity of the Hallowed Halls of BENSON. This insistence drove away potential converts, and made the rest of the League of BENSON look foolish. Though I have no doubt that he had Uncyclopedia's best interests at heart, his contributions did not make up for his shrillness and constant hell-raising. He did indeed receive warnings that he would be banned, but always made a desperate case for himself, and was always backed up by kind-hearted souls who didn't feel any one of his actions warranted a ban. Famine, as much as we all like to joke about his cold, dead heart, knows what he's doing. Nothing he does results in permanent damage (because it's a wiki, and people can be unbanned with no harm done), and in this case, the entire adminship has agreed to keep the ban. We loved him like an alcoholic brother with a heart of gold and a gambling addiction, but polarized the community and, quite frankly, sometimes didn't know when to shut up. I do miss the constant praise he gave me for my Chronicling, but life goes on, and humor still needs to be written. --»The Acceptable Cainad (Fnord) 07:01, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Ninny has gone to a special place, he's running free now with others of his kind, in a huge golden field. The sun is shining on him....lets remember him like that, the warm breeze blowing through his hair as he leaps and jumps, joy in his heart. (Mhaille wipes a tear from his eye).... -- Sir Mhaille  (talk to me)

Sometimes, on a clear day, when it's quiet, and you listen closely, you can hear the trees of wikiland sigh "nintendooorulezzzz... nintennndorullezzz...". • Spang • ☃ • talk • 19:52, 16 Feb 2007

I think he means Nin is now living in the real world.Maybe having a job making some money. Maybe a wife or girlfriend living like normal people being happy. Not wasting time at this dump. I do not know how to distort Mhaille analogy to sport this theorem, but I'm pretty sure this is what he meant. -- Vosnul 16:33, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Well maybe so, but wouldn't it sort of be an invasion of privacy to let the whole public know that a certain user is targeted as a trouble-maker by the admins? Usually it is a personal thing between the admins and the user in question, unless the user makes it public in the forums here or something. Normally it is just on the user talk page or something, with warnings about the user's behavior. When you make it public, not only is the user judged by the admins, but also the rest of the community as well. Ah well, make it an UnSurvivor series and the loser gets voted off the island wiki to make it even more obnoxious popular. :) --Lt. Sir Orion Blastar (talk) 20:33, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Cainad can you please put some links to this I don't think Lord Fluffy would know about his trouble making.--Scott 01:22, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I would love to do that, except for the fact that I really don't want to at all. I wasn't trying to make a discussion out of this, but rather I intended to end it, in the hopes that the flamewar that is about to happen could be avoided. Nin claimed that he did not wish to return, so let us take him at his word. Yes, it was an invasion of privacy to make Nin's bannination public, but that is not an issue worth dredging up. Mistakes were made on both sides, there are some regrets, but there is nothing left that can be fixed by further discussion.

Someday, maybe, we will be sitting around the fireplace, playing backgammon, as aged men and women and hermaphrodites, and someone will look up from their cup of tea and say to the group "Hey, remember Nintendorulez?" Then everyone will begin talking about the old days, and maybe we'll feel nostalgic and forgiving. Quietly, tentatively, we will unlock the door that holds back Nin, and we will wait and see what happens next.

But that is not today, or tomorrow. It is some far off day, probably a distant Thursday afternoon. Let it go, and let life go on without pulling open old wounds.

I apologize for the drama. The abbreviated version of this passage is "Everyone just shut up for a while, please." --»The Acceptable Cainad (Fnord) 06:54, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't matter. Nin's not coming back. I think I'll stick some unicode in my sig in his memory. --Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 18:26, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

How did you get your sig in his memory?--Sir Modusoperandi ^Boinc! 18:32, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

/me gets the operating equipment. —Braydie 18:33, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Alright. I don't pretend to understand the circumstances of this- I have insufficient data. However, I will be starting a new Village Dump topic on possibilities for admin limitation. I will cease to discuss it here out of respect for the permabanned. My apologies, Cainad. --Lord Fluffy who rains fire from the heavens 21:33, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I think a much better use of your time might be to focus on writing some funny articles, and let the Admins get on with doing what they do. No matter how well meaning your "suggestions" might be, the fact that you have been here for less than two weeks and focused almost solely on Forums will give the impression that you haven't the foggiest idea what you are talking about especially by those who have contributed steadily here for a year or two. Thats not to belittle your opinion, just to point out that maybe you should wait a little longer before telling us how to run things around here. -- Sir Mhaille  (talk to me)

Regardless of the silly notion of "making good use of time" whilst procrastinating on this here lot, I find it quite .. unsettling that you would opt for this opinion. It's like saying Ruthless dictatorship is fine if everybody is a law abiding citizen or no need for questioning religious opiates when everybody simply believes the preachers lies. Freedom of thought is fine as long as everybody thinks along the same lines. This seems to be the generally excepted stance. So be it. From this point on instead of being an idea or a community or whatever hippy slang you want to name, this site is simply a medium. A choice/method to put things out there or not. This Nin permaban thing simply is very nasty business that should raise serious questions on, perhaps, how a small scale site like this dump should function within this so called web 2.0 paradigm. But anyway, who are we nameless faceless people from all over the world to tell you admin how to run things around this here wiki.. WIKI ...( there is your second web bubble burst for you ) -- Vosnul 23:52, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Vosnul, why are you here at all? I don't think I've ever seen you show any amusement or appreciation for Uncyc, so I have to wonder why you bother. Instead you mostly post heated, oftentimes half-incoherent ramblings (and bizarre anti-American diatribes - now, I can appreciate anti-American diatribes, I just prefer for them to make sense). I have to wonder why you bother with this site at all.

Now, with regard to admins. Admin function/limitations are always going to be an issue here, because everything, including our admin roster, changes all the time. If you honestly feel that an admin has stepped over the line, I consider it your duty as a member of this community to raise the issue.

But you need to be responsible with your issue-raising. The Nintendorulez thing has been going on for well over a year now. If you are not familiar with the entire scope of the issue, it's your responsibility to research it. With something like this you cannot read one or two Forum topics and make an informed decision - there are too many nuances that you might not be aware of.

Here is my take on the Nin issue (I'm not sure if I've ever posted it): Nin had been trolling for months and months, inciting flamewars that are detrimental to the community. He has rarely performed any single act that deserves a banning, but the consistent community disruption deserves an infiniban. And please, don't display ignorance by responding with "You just don't like him because he hates Euroipods." A big chunk of his Uncyc career has been whining, disruption and trolling. He received warnings and he ignored them - or at least only abided by them temporarily.

Finally, Cainad above mentioned that it was an "invasion of privacy" to make Nin's ban public. First off, all bans here are public. This is a public website, so the responsibility is yours (that's a general "you") to behave in an appropriate manner. Not to mention that this Forum topic in particular was started by Nin himself (well, using Crazyswordman as his posting proxy). —rc (t) 00:33, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

)

Horses. Must be another vosnul. And thanks for the insults, that always gets me off my feet to start doing something useful ( plus it renews my faith in this here lot ). Alas the host hilarious of comedies on display here seems to be the way things are run. bye. --Vosnul 11:06, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Hm, what I said was insulting, but your comments ("preacher's lies," an admin as a "despot") are, what, constructive criticism? I think not. Are you really that hypocritical? —rc (t) 17:15, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah., you are a dick. thats your talent. Whining bozo. have fun , Enjoy this useless admin powertrippy thing , right !. fucking aspie ( I miss that ). -- Vosnul 22:48, 18 February 2007 (UTC) ( o yeah. and delete my content. I stole it from books and suchs )

"This useless admin powertrippy thing" being what exactly? You still have yet to make anything approaching a coherent argument. At least my perceived "insults" aren't non sequiturs. —rc (t) 23:48, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Vosnul, as I see it, abuse of admin powers would have involved shutting up anyone who questions admin authority, and pre-emptively banning users that seem as though they're starting a flame-like discussion before they start, as you did a half-dozen edita ago. The sheer size of this page, and the fact that no one that's posted here had been banned, despite many being very critical of admins, usually unfairly, speaks to how fair we're being in the use of our power. Now, if you insist of being the first to get banned from this page, though, we'll oblige you, as repeatedly using insults linked with vague accusations is considered a violation of Rule #2. Take a little time before your next post. You're obviously posting angry, as you've stopped making sense.--<<>> 23:52, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Sir Mhaille, I accept that you are not trying to belittle my opinion, but you do seem to have a talent for putting people on the defensive. Oh, before I forget- please forgive me Vosnul, I [think] I'm on your side, but shut up. No flamewars. In any case, it is my objective to feel out the Uncyclopedia community so that I have some idea what's going on and who is in power before I contribute articles to the mainspace. I apologize if this seems to you a bit strange, but it is the course of action that I found the most logical. I would suggest (heh heh- another suggestion), though, that if you wish to avoid upsetting people you do not point out how long they've been here as compared to others. It is rather emasculating [correct word?]. --Lord Fluffy who rains fire from the heavens 17:22, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think pointing out length of time spent here is meant to belittle, he's merely saying: the admins have been here a long time, and as such, they know how things work here. Coming in and questioning their judgement and past decisions straight away is not likely to go down well. I accept it's possible that you've been through all the histories and have a very good idea of how thing work and should work, but it is very unlikely. Just have some trust.

Also, I am locking this topic in the name of drama; I can sense it escalating again when there is no reason for it, and I can't see any specific outcome anyone is trying to get to here, other than put make their point again. If someone disagrees, please feel free to override this or let me know. • Spang • ☃ • talk • 17:52, 19 Feb 2007