Forum:Vote: Put "Delete" before "Keep" in VFD

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In questions that come before Votes for Deletion, the idea that a page should be deleted is an assertion. The idea that the page should be kept is a rebuttal. What you want to read is the assertion (beginning with the nominator), followed by a rebuttal.

I modified {{Votervfd}} to achieve this effect. Aleister in Chains objected that the nomination already comes first (in time); I replied that it should also do, in vertical space on the page; and nothing about this move changes the way that anyone votes, or codes his votes. Later, Sycamore reverted me, the Change History saying "I'm not comfortable with this," meaning process and not necessarily result. My mandate was the fact that this is a wiki, the page was unprotected, and the change makes sense. My notice on VFD was moved to the talk page. Apologies to VFD readers who have seen the boxes flipped upside-down twice today.

But I put it to you: Shall we reverse the order, placing Delete before Keep, both in {{Votervfd}} and in the template on UN:VFD?

Put Delete before Keep

Score: 6

For. For the reasons set out above. Spıke ¬ 14:30 1-Nov-10
For - I'd be happy to go for that, but then I'd also like to see people using VFD far less than they do and actually look to edit and improve articles rather than just look to nuke em. -- Sir Mhaille (talk to me)
Well, I couldn't possibly care less, but I guess having delete on the top would save me one or two down-arrow keystrokes a week - although casting this vote has wiped out those time savings for years to come. pillow talk 18:07, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
For, yeah alright. -- The Zombiebaron 18:48, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
For - Mostly because it would look better IMO, but also because I wanna see if anyone gets pissed off over this. -- Thankful Kippy Share blessings Bountiful harvest 14:57, Nov. 2, 2010
For. - I'd prefer this too, although it's by no means crucial - that is to say, I'm not going to have an autistic fit and start slapping myself in the face if it doesn't get changed. -- Prof. Olipro KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass) 16:38, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
For. It makes sense. -- 05:19, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

Leave it alone

Score: 9

...It's fine as it is. Also, per Mhaille, limit discussions over VFD for no more than once per quarter. ~ 14:42, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
This change would be inconsistent with every other vote here (VFH, VFP, award nominations, most forums). Delete gets the first word by the act of putting up a page for deletion. Keepers who really care to keep a page then have a chance to rebut the argument. Anyway, isn't this how Gore lost to Bush in Florida in '000? Aleister 15:09 1 11
I don't object that "Delete gets the first word" (that is, nomination). I only object to the fact that the first word doesn't appear first! Showing the case before the rebuttal is in fact consistent with elsewhere. Spıke ¬ 15:36 1-Nov-10
Probably wouldn't make much of a difference either way but I agree with Aleister up there.-- Phlegm Leoispotter * (garble! jank!) 16:15, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
I think this is pointless from the outset. Leave it alone and write articles.--Sycamore (Talk) 17:12, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
You reverted, commenting, "I'm not comfortable with this - you need to go through some kind of channel where the cabal decides," and here we are. As you required the debate, don't complain that the debate is keeping us from articles. Spıke ¬ 18:32 1-Nov-10

I'm complaining that your 'editorial concerns' are taking up time. My other compliant in my revert was based on poopsmith issues on which you should know better - adding your personal comments in the VFD page and changing stuff without any 'mandate' or request from the community. There's real ego issues with you, of course when you buy shoes too big for you, you'll trip up a lot. Quit spoiling for conflict and 'issues' to trying to score points, and we may get along better...--Sycamore (Talk) 20:55, November 1, 2010 (UTC)

The change could have been confusing and deserved notice on the page. The personal attack I will leave be. Spıke ¬ 21:55 1-Nov-10

I think I'd like to go back on my not caring stance and attempt to break into this complaining with further complaining, because I simply cannot be arsed to find something more productive to do, because I'm such a wonderful, helpful person like that. And I really, really like complaining. Seriously, isn't complaining fun?

SPIKE, Sycamore's got a point as to the whole undue process thing; just changing something as major and used and whatnot all out of the blue like that wasn't a very good idea; remember that mess with whatever it was that happened with the UnNews mainpage? (If you have no idea what I'm talking about, nevermind; I really wasn't paying attention at the time and it could have been something else, but the point is, people don't like sudden change, yes?) And perhaps your head is getting a little big; can't say I've helped, following you around saying how awesome you are and whatnot, but for the most part, you are pretty awesome. Just don't forget where that's coming from; I'm, like, this enormous, stoned idiot, and stuff, after all. Mind, you definitely got UotM for a reason, lots of folks backing you, and all, but... I forgot what I was saying. Something about making mistakes and corssing people's bubbles, and stuff. Maybe you know what I was going to say?

Anyway, on to complaining about Sycamore.

Sycamore, you do realise that complaining about people wasting time by complaining is also a form of complaining, also potentially a waste of time, right? Although that begs the question of what a waste of time even is, site like this, it's all folks puttering around, anyhow. They do what they do because they want to, and if they want to complain, they complain. If they want to write, they write. If they want to wander around poking articles with a stick, they go around poking articles with a stick... some of these things garner complaining in response than others, but sometimes, valid points are brought up. And sometimes, one would never know how valid a point is until it is brought up.

At any rate, what's the worst that could happen, voting on this? Even if it is a terrible idea that is shot down, it doesn't mean it shouldn't be suggested. Not all change is inherently bad, and communities function through communication and crap. And if people really have better things to do, need they even poke their heads in here? The fact that you care enough to even address this is certainly commendable, after all.

Also, getting along is overrated. Where's the fun in life if you cannot have massive fights? Kind of like what I'm trying to do right now. Subsequently, you may both now attack me. Please don't hurt me. I think I'm kidding. ~

*shifty eyes* (talk) (stalk) -- 20101101 - 22:07 (UTC)

I've really gotten used to it as it is. I probably won't be the only one bamboozled with a sudden change. --Wilytank can be a pain in the ass. 23:21, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
As per Mordillo - Not particularly sincere, Sir ColinA Y B CUNVFHWhoringMore Whoring at 23:47, Monday 01 November 2010 -
Against. change is bad. --Mn-z 01:17, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
I believe in the old American Adage, Innocent until proven guilty. Or, in this case, Innocent before proven guilty. Or, in this case, Not Shitty before shitty. Woody On Fire! Talking Woody Stalking Woody 01:26, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
Yes; but the prosecution presents its case (Delete) before the defense (Keep). Spıke ¬ 23:21 2-Nov-10
WTF? This bothers you? Seriously? Wow. --UU - natter 16:20, Nov 3

I don't really mind, but I'm not sure

It's always seemed logical to me that the keep votes were above the delete votes. Maybe it's because I consider the keep votes to be of "higher" importance than delete votes (which basically just say "this isn't good enough" or "this is crap"). Or maybe it's just because keep votes look like for votes and I was already familiar with the VFH system. Then again, after a scoring template was recently introduced, counting delete votes as "positive" and keep votes as "negative", it seems kinda weird to list the "negative" votes first. It's only a minor issue either way, though. —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 15:01, 1 November 2010

I couldn't care less.

Okay, actually I probably could, but I can't be bothered to contemplate the subsequent ramifications. So whatever. ~ *shifty eyes* (talk) (stalk) -- 20101101 - 18:51 (UTC)

As long as we're voting on things that don't matter

Change the maximum number of active VFD noms from 20 to 21

Score: -3

For. Blackjack, baby! pillow talk 22:53, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
For. -- 05:21, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
Against -- The Zombiebaron 23:12, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
Against. per my dislike of change. --Mn-z 01:19, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
Against. 22. ~ *shifty eyes* (talk) (stalk) -- 20101102 - 01:39 (UTC)
Against. I'd sooner reduce it to 10. -- Sir Mhaille (talk to me)
Against. I'll compromise for nothing less than infinity. —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 15:15, 2 November 2010

Force SPIKE to change his username to SPIEK

Score: +6

For. I prefer it that way. pillow talk 22:55, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
For -- The Zombiebaron 23:12, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
Against. Sounds like the name of a gay porn title. --Wilytank can be a pain in the ass. 23:39, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
Batfor Because it sounds like the name of a gay porn title -- ~ *You can be Robin* (talk) 16:49, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
For - Not particularly sincere, Sir ColinA Y B CUNVFHWhoringMore Whoring at 23:44, Monday 01 November 2010 -
For. --Mn-z 01:19, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
Screw it, for. ~ *shifty eyes* (talk) (stalk) -- 20101102 - 16:13 (UTC)
For. -- 05:23, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

Institute a policy that anyone who says something like "shut up and write an article," and then fails to write an article within the next 24 hours, is given a four-day ban

Score: +6

For. It is only fair. pillow talk 22:57, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
Against -- The Zombiebaron 23:12, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
Zombiebaron --Mn-z 01:19, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
For. Hell, yes. That would be funny. ~ *shifty eyes* (talk) (stalk) -- 20101102 - 01:39 (UTC)
Hell Yes! —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 15:15, 2 November 2010
FOR Being lectured on Uncyclopedia can be a little tiresome. There ends my lecture on being lectured mAttlobster. (hello) 17:16, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
For. Now shut up and write an article. --UU - natter 16:20, Nov 3
For. I had spent my life writing articles, mostly on userspace, for mainspace. |Si Plebius Dato' Joe ang Kemador CUN|IC Kill | 23:27, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
For. -- 05:23, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

Send people over to Lyrithya's house to find his or her tablet pen already

Score: -2

For. Did you check all your pants? Missing things usually turn up in my pants. pillow talk 23:02, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
For. Pants or purse, one of those. What is a tablet pen, and how did it get lost? Aleister can't be bothered to look up the time and date, just an arbritary social agreement anyway. Squirrels, for example, don't have a concept of what day it is. Maybe they should, I dunno
For. -- 05:24, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
Against -- The Zombiebaron 23:12, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
Against. And anyone who does help him should be labeled an enemy of the state. --Wilytank can be a pain in the ass. 23:55, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
Against. per above. --Mn-z 01:19, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
Against, as I don't actually have a house, and I highly doubt it's in my apartment, anyway. Probably at my parents' place or my brother's or my friend's or my dad's cousins, or... ~ *shifty eyes* (talk) (stalk) -- 20101102 - 01:39 (UTC)

Restore Fuck ChiefjusticeDS to my userspace

Score: +4

For. I want to read it!! And it it's any good, I want to record UnTunes:Fuck ChiefjusticeDS. pillow talk 23:03, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
For -- The Zombiebaron 23:12, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
For. Sure, but only if it's recorded, and if not recorded the user must write an article within 24 minutes, like that contest by somebody awhile back, Zombie something, or Ape, or someone. And can't you just go pick it up on that magic mirror site I keep hearing about? Aleister 23:22 1 11
I tried! I think someone might have actually gone over there and scrubbed it. pillow talk 23:23, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
For. That article had a bright future ahead of it. --Wilytank can be a pain in the ass. 23:44, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
For. per below. --Mn-z 01:19, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
Against. I've read it, and it's not actually that good. You should just write a better version. (hint - that won't take much) ~ *shifty eyes* (talk) (stalk) -- 20101102 - 01:39 (UTC)
Against. Per Lyrithya. —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 15:15, 2 November 2010
Comment. Actually, I've decided to rewrite it myself, and Chief was kind enough to restore it to my userspace, and... it's even more pathetic than I remembered. But still. Thought you should know. ~ *shifty eyes* (talk) (stalk) -- 20101102 - 20:28 (UTC)
That's disappointingly bad. But, I am glad I could finally read it. Perhaps when I get my new sound card, I will immortalize it in song. pillow talk 21:57, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
Comment. If there's an article I want to write, it would be Fuck Lyrithya and Fuck Cajek. We should also have Fuck you, Fuck Joe9320, etc. on our userspaces. |Si Plebius Dato' Joe ang Kemador CUN|IC Kill | 23:29, November 11, 2010 (UTC)

Rename the potato

Score: 1

For. I hate this "Sophia" shit. What the hell is that all about? pillow talk 23:04, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
- I think it was because that was Chronarion's girlfriend's username or something. --Mn-z 23:02, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
  - Sophia Loren was his girlfriend? Holy shit! —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 23:11, 2 November 2010
For I think we should call it Gary. I already do. -- The Zombiebaron 23:12, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
For. But I think the potato should be that Halloween potato. I don't have the code to the page or else I'd just change it, and you know why? Because I won UotM in Sept. and didn't get to do anything with it, so this is what I want to do. The potato to the Halloween potato for good, yeah. Aleister 23:17 1 11
Here is the pumpkin logo. I'm sure there's a way to change your uncyclopedia.js so that it is the logo forever. -- The Zombiebaron 23:21, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, I'd already planted it on my Cemetery and Ghost articles, and on the Halloween page. I don't mean my uncy, but everyone's. What good is a potato without changing the potato to a pumpkin, which I guess is my real point here. Pumpkin as the new logo. That's what I'll use one of my three wishes for winning UotM for! Aleister 23"26 1 11
Against. --Mn-z 01:19, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
Against. It would make this crappy image I did once completely irrelevant. I can take anything but being irrelevant. Woody On Fire! Talking Woody Stalking Woody 01:30, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
Against. Because it'd make me studying philosophy a lot less funny. —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 15:11, 2 November 2010
For. Because Sophia is hard to pronounce if you have a lisp. -- ~ *You can be Robin* (talk) 16:52, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
Against. Whatever y'all'd come up with would be worse. ~ *shifty eyes* (talk) (stalk) -- 20101103 - 16:32 (UTC)
For. Name it after me. --Roman Dog Bird 23:33, November 11, 2010 (UTC)

Keep Halloween Signatures Year Round

Score: +2

Nom & For Because I'm too lazy to change mine back. -- ~ *You can be Robin* (talk) 16:55, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
For. I'm too lazy to change mine back too. —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 16:56, 2 November 2010
For. I'm too lazy to remember if I changed mine. ~ *shifty eyes* (talk) (stalk) -- 20101102 - 18:02 (UTC)
For. KiptheDip has the best one, methinks. Here's a kind of halloweeny signature. ~ 18:04 2 11
Against. Because I never had one in the first place. --Wilytank can be a pain in the ass. 18:29, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
Against. - Keep the bar low. I wanna be the best at something. -- Ѽ Kip pyw een 15:34, Nov. 3, 2010
Against the idea of Kip ever being the best at anything. ---UU - natter 16:20, Nov 3

Abstain

Score: e⁻¹

A Romartus-like abstain on all the above. --RomArtus*Imperator ® (Orate) 19:36, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
Against. -- ~ *You can be Robin* (talk) 12:01, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
Pie. ~ *shifty eyes* (talk) (stalk) -- 20101103 - 16:02 (UTC)
Seven pounds of ground beef. pillow talk 16:04, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
The Rent Is Not At An Exorbitant Rate Per Month But It Could Still Be Lower - Not particularly sincere, Sir ColinA Y B CUNVFHWhoringMore Whoring at 21:05, Thursday 04 November 2010 -
ZZZZZZ Arf! Meow? Belch. -- Simsilikesims(♀UN) Talk here. 06:07, November 11, 2010 (UTC)

Worship Magic man forever and always. And hail him as the best uncyclopedian ever.

Score: 1 Users who lives will be spared by dictator Magic man

For. 'Cause I'm awsome. -- 05:38, November 18, 2010 (UTC)