Forum:There is a giant squirrel on IRC

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It has me rather upset.

Less to the point, however, I suppose I have a question. The wiki has two basic rules from which all the other dealies appear to stem - be funny and not just stupid, and don't be a dick. Should these, at least the second one, not also apply to the #uncyclopedia IRC channel as well, as the support channel for the site, and also as a representation of the community in another medium?

I ask because they apparently don't, judging by a lovely greeting I was fortunate enough to receive this morning. Basically, the guy called me a 'batshit retarded cunt' and told me to fuck off, and then went into further all-caps tirade until I managed to figure out how to kickban him. A normal enough response, right? Except apparently not, according to Olipro, who promptly unbanned the bloke and then wanted to know why I'd banned him at all, since evidently the fellow's actions were not reason enough; it's not like he was spamming. The log is here (with a little bit of a prior conversation removed at the beginning), if you want to see for yourself, and this sort of thing doesn't seem to be terribly unusual, either.

Is that acceptable behaviour for IRC? Should it be? I know normally what goes on in IRC is separate from the wiki, and visa versa, but the fact of the matter remains that actions there do reflect the wiki, and those on IRC in general with a project cloak act as representatives of the wiki simply by wearing it, whether they intend to be or not. This is the behaviour and the attitude reflecting back on us here, and I for one do not feel it is good for the project; even if it has not been an issue in the past (I really don't know what IRC used to be like, mind), it seems the sort of thing that we may not be able to afford in the somewhat sorry state the wiki seems to be in presently. Discuss? 1234 ~ 18:51, 11 August 2011

Many years ago the IRC channel started to become an almost separate community from the wiki. It is therefore hard to enforce the same rules in the chatroom that we enforce on the site. However, cyberbullying has never been tolerated anywhere on Uncyclopedia. Those who cyberbully should be banned. -- The Zombiebaron 19:41, August 11, 2011 (UTC)

And what would you say qualifies as cyberbullying? 1234 ~ 20:10, 11 August 2011

I'd say calling somebody a "batshit retarded cunt" definitely qualifies as cyberbullying. -- The Zombiebaron 03:21, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

Even if the fellow in question was himself amused by what he was saying? I'm not saying he was, but some have defended similar actions others deemed insulting as, while perhaps insensitive, intended in 'good fun' and thus not really bad. Considering that tends to result in people getting banned anyway when they do that on the wiki, that seems a little odd.

See, I really don't agree about it being separate from the wiki, at least not anymore. Regardless of how it may have started, the ops on IRC are the admins on the wiki, and the entire thing is basically an extension of here in a different medium - a place for wiki editors to discuss matters in real time, and also a place to hang out and to joke around, or even for folks to go to try to appeal bans, or flag down an admin if one is needed, or ask for help with some matter or another. How is that necessarily separate? Many of the lurkers do not appear on wiki, but nearly all of the active chatters are active editors as well. Considering that, and considering how what happens there does impact feelings and relations on the wiki, however hard it may be to try to enforce the same rules, should we not at least try, as it is largely the same community? Since the same folks are supposedly running it, why should it be so hard to do that? What am I missing? 1234 ~ 04:37, 13 August 2011

In order to make the IRC community more of a direct extension of our wiki community we would have to do something radically different in the channel. I suggest only allowing users with registered wiki accounts to lurk the channel – with a few obvious exceptions, like freenode staff – as a first step. -- The Zombiebaron 09:05, August 13, 2011 (UTC)

Against. Not only is it too difficult to enforce, but it assumes that anyone who doesn't have a wiki account is gonna troll. --Andorin Kato 19:32, August 13, 2011 (UTC)

Why should we need to take it that far, though? So long as they behave, should they not be welcome wherever? The problem is, though, folks don't behave on IRC and some of them are active members of the wiki. But there evidently are no consequences for it, there or here or anywhere, not for those doing it. 1234 ~ 20:19, 13 August 2011

If you are a big enough dick on IRC, it will reflect on you on-site. --Andorin Kato 20:22, August 13, 2011 (UTC)

That's usually the sort of thing to try to avoid, though. But yeah... 1234 ~ 01:53, 14 August 2011

I don't know if there has been stuff between you and ONX in the past, but just judging from that excerpt, I think you were justified. It's easy to tell people to just ignore all the nonsense on IRC, but you're right, it does reflect poorly on Uncyc, and things can get too nasty and personal. —rc (t) 01:01, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know who ONX is or if he's even a user. He's boasted to be that he's been hanging about since 2005, but that doesn't mean a damn thing. IRC needs to become more tightly knitted with the onsite community, weeded of useless dicks, and victim of the few (two) rules of the wiki. There's been plenty of inter-wiki-IRC dramas in the past that largely amounted to "Jesus man just take a joke it's IRC" and that's all good because lots of jokes are funny, but a handful of select people tend to overstep their "IRC curmudgeonly dick" persona and become actual curmudgeonly dicks. I think Mordillo made a ridiculous public gesture to this effect a year ago. Some of it is still kind of true. The part about people knowing when jokes end and assholes begin. -- T​K​F​​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​UU​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​CK 01:11, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

Not that it matters, but I remember ONX from way back. Waaaay back. —rc (t) 01:25, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

Very basically, I agree with the "don't be a dick" rule, or else you get banned. Nobody can defend a user who's being a dick, or else he gets banned too. And besides, it seems those 2 don't do crap on the wiki, wouldn't that be a shame to lose a nice person because of IRC faggotry? Say a 15 year old who's cool but who is intimidated by cyberbullying and leaves? So old trusty Banhammer needs some exercise if people don't get it. My opinion. Mattsnow 01:28, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

Flaming, trolling and cyberbullying go against the idea of a constructive and entertaining IRC channel. No one wants to join a channel in which they will be harassed. I would've kicked ONX for that too. --Andorin Kato 18:39, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

Whilst it would be incredibly tempting to get all melodramatic and produce a lengthy response on here, I'm just about all drama'd out, since this new debacle occured on IRC, anyone wishing to discuss it is welcome to join and discuss it with me either on-channel or privately as I'm just about all drama'd out and really not interested in firing off some big war of words on what is and isn't a proportionate response to inter-personal grievances occurring on IRC. Especially since Lyrithya's included log has a rather brilliant scope for the possibility of taking my words out of context. -- Prof. Olipro KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass) 19:23, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

Why resort to melodrama? This is no new debacle; I and others have encountered bullying and harassment in there for months. Most are simply too polite to point it out when folks do something they don't appreciate, but the problem is, it seems to keep getting worse. Do you disagree that such is an issue, then? Not trying to take anything out of context here, but your response would be appreciated: do you then consider cyberbullying acceptable behaviour in the IRC channel? 1234 ~ 20:19, 13 August 2011

After some research, it has become clear that this is over the Memegenerator of you which you apparently have been alleging I'm the creator/instigator of (full disclosure: I'm not) - whilst you may claim it an issue of being "too polite" I would point out that if you do not tell anyone it's bothering you then nobody will take any action to stop it; being "too polite" is evidently something you need to get to grips with since in the interim, a rather large quantity of hatred has built-up in you and my attempts to communicate with you have been met with what I would only call deliberate evasion in light of your comments to others. No I do not consider cyberbullying acceptable but I will also point out that whether something is considered banter/jibes/poking-fun or not will largely depend on whether the subject of the jokes communicates that they are feeling hurt by them. Now, as I already stated, if this is to be discussed further, let's do it on IRC, there's something to be said of the benefits of immediacy when communicating about such sensitive issues. -- Prof. Olipro KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass) 20:40, August 13, 2011 (UTC)

No, that's not it, although if you really want to go into that, I did ask you to stop, at least once, and as is often the case in such situations, it had no effect. While it might seem the sensible thing to do on paper, telling bullies, vandals, and the like that the bullying or whatever bothers one just tends to encourage the bullies/etc to do it more, because that means it's getting noticed. It's why people bully other people in the first place, same as why many vandals vandalise the wiki - to get a reaction, and to get noticed themselves.

But ignore the memegenerator thing; that got deleted, done is done, push it aside, etc, and I could still go into a whole slew of things you specifically have done on IRC in the past few months, from putting new users on edge by calling them 'fucks' right off the bat to revealing personal information of various other users without their consent, something that it turns out really is harassment. Thing is, though, this isn't about you specifically, and whatever may be between us, what I'm trying to address here is a good deal more general - standards of conduct, not just for you or me, but for everyone who comes into the channel. The wiki has a rule, don't be a dick, and I for one would really like to see it applied to IRC as well, and I would likewise like to see folks held accountable for their actions in the future, regardless of where they are, when it is directly affiliated with the project. Is that really so much to ask? 1234 ~ 01:50, 14 August 2011

Unless things have changed quite dramatically within my past year of inactivity, DBAD does apply to the channel, and you can be held accountable on-site for your actions on IRC. --Andorin Kato 01:54, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and in case anyone else forgot this existed like I did, 'cyberbullying' is defined here. Regardless of what we all think of how things are, rereading that might be in order. Saying not to be a dick is all very well and fine, but that's a chunk of what it actually comes down to. 1234 ~ 03:32, 14 August 2011

As I already said, I'll discuss this on IRC, especially as we have now moved into the realm of rather serious allegations; I'm not aware of ever having revealed private information on the channel, nor putting someone on edge by calling them a "fuck" - I would find it far more likely that you have mistaken humourously intended banter for abuse, but as far as I'm concerned I now refuse to comment on this here further since what you're accusing me of is pretty severe, indeed, so severe that I'm surprised the first I'm hearing of it is from you (considering apparently your grievances aren't about you and in fact are all about third parties... curious that) In any case, since these are evidently highly-sensitive matters, the on-wiki discussion ends here. -- Prof. Olipro KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass) 03:55, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but taking this to IRC is that last thing that's going to help matters; this needs to stay in the open where people can see it. Details I will only share with those I feel I can trust, and unfortunately you are about as far from that as it is possible to get at present. I apologise, however, for having brought up specifics against you at all; as I said, that is not what I'm trying to address with this forum, though if you must know why I never said anything about some of this before, it's hard to bring up concerns when you don't even realise they're such an issue, especially when others, when questioned about you, just say, 'Oh, that's just how <insert name here> is; don't mind him.' Not that I can back any of it up simply for the nature of what it is - in privacy matters, providing logs or names or specifics would be just as bad or worse as revealing such information in the first place, considering how this much more static a website is, and for proof of others upset by your actions, they would have to come forward themselves, which I can tell you as one such individual is not exactly a very appealing thing to do. But what was said to me was said in confidence, and I am not willing to betray that any more than I already have. Oops, and stuff. Sorry about that.

Now please, will you answer the original question? As the most active op, you of all would be qualified to say - at present, are there standards of conduct in IRC? What are they? 1234 ~ 06:44, 14 August 2011

Hey guys, remember that one time I was a tremendously whiny bitch over IRC conduct and started a drama-laden forum about it? But then I grew the fuck up and got over it? Good times. – Sir Skullthumper, MD (criticize • writings • critchat) 00:02 Aug 15, 2011

Nope, I don't remember. Please remind me. —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 01:59, 16 August 2011

Perhaps there should be an IRC for general idiocy and one for more constructive idiocy. Either way, perhaps not the best place to hang around unless you want to make a specific request/appeal. --RomArtus*Imperator ® (Orate) 12:33, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

Granted I haven't been around much for the past year or more, but when did we start assuming that IRC was anything other than a bottomless hole of shit and trolls? Taking anything on IRC seriously was/is tantamount to internet aspergers. Remember that time when somebody called someone something then we kickbanned him and called him something when he rejoined and then it devolved into flooding the channel with HALP! and teasing skullthumper about his nonexistant relationship with ethine and then everyone took to calling each other asshats and fagzorz and spamming porn/prawn links? Yeah, good times. -OptyC Sucks! CUN14:00, 16 Aug

Actually, Skully visited Ethine IRL a couple months ago and was severely traumatized. —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 14:04, 16 August 2011

Good times -OptyC Sucks! CUN14:11, 16 Aug

Except that's not my vhost, so some lamearse has been submitting fake quotes to QDB, SHOCK HORROR -- Prof. Olipro KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass) 15:44, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

It's real, I remember it like it was a year and a half ago. Also, here's this thing I started but never got around to finishing. Perhaps it may help. -OptyC Sucks! CUN15:58, 16 Aug