Forum:Wikia staff delete article after its subject threatened to sue

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Some spanish guy called Ramoncín is sending legal threats to news and humor sites all over the web, claiming their content harm his honor. He managed to shut down a youtube chanel but he lost the trial against the news site 20minutos. Wikia was very quick to delete the article about him on spanish uncyclopedia. So much for Fair Use, First Amendment or any other U.S. law. It seems really easy to intimidate wikia, this guy succeded to do so even overseas.--Rataube 08:59, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

You know the Spanish. Firey tempers. Passionate. But now is not the time for talking about them. Now...is time for the dance! (At least we know who will play him in the movie) Sir Modusoperandi ^Boinc! 14:09, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

It's Alan de la Partidgio. --nldr 14:11, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

It seems a dangerous precedent, but is he really of much note? I googled the name but all I got was a few mentions on some Spanish sites and Inciclopedia and a FaceBook page. I wonder if in this instance the powers that be just decided it wasn't worth the trouble and deleted the article? (On the other hand, be could a major pop star for all I know - I wouldn't have heard of him even if he lived next door to me.) Rabbi Techno kvetch Contribs FOXES 14:21, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Question: How notable is this guy? Depending on his fame level and the content, he has the right to sue for libel. -- Kippy the Elf Talk Works ☃ 14:40, Apr. 2, 2010

Looks like he's a rock musician who's been active for almost 30 years. In the U.S., at least, it's clear that he's a public figure and that satirizing him is completely within our rights. But I don't know anything about Spanish law, or who runs the Spanish Uncyclopedia (does Wikia run them all?) pillow talk 17:43, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Also, for all we know, the article was incredibly unfunny and stupid, and the Spanish admins deleted it on those grounds. pillow talk 17:43, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

At first glance it would appear that Rautube is right, but I'm really not sure as the forums seems to take a different tone towards the end. I speak very little Spanish, so I'll have to have a friend translate this for me. While I trust you guys, I'm not jumping to any conclusions quite yet about this one because if Rautube is right then this has the potential to piss me off. For all we know this could be some extended April Fool's joke. --EMC ^[TALK] 18:11 Apr 2 2010

Yeah, like when John Paul II died. --nldr 18:40, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

He is notable for his role running SAGAE, an organization similar to the RIA in the U.S. The only official contact wikia had with the community about this issue was Sannse's message on the deletion log: "deleted by wikia staff". No warning, no afterwards explanations, just the deletion log. Ive always been against the "wikia is evil" approach that some other uncyclopedians have expressed over and over, several times I argued against the claim "wikia only cares about profit and doesn't mind fucking the users in the process". Can't do that anymore, I must say I'm deeply disappointed. The guy has already lost a trial and was condemned to pay the trial's costs. Not only his threats have no base, but he makes them from Spain, I can hardly imagine how he could harm a company based on California. The only thing he can do is intimidate. You would think they have a legal adviser at wikia who could tell a real threat from an empty one. And if it was a real one, they would communicate with the community.--Rataube 22:22, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Well, that's Wikia for you. A comprehensive list of their shortcomings is at ComplaintWiki. I go there when feeling particularly grumpy. • • • Necropaxx (T) {~} Friday, 22:39, Apr 2 2010

I guess I'd have to be able to read the article to decide how I feel about this. I mean, if we had an article on Tom Cruise, and the entire text was "TOM CRUISE IS A GAY FAG WHO FUCKS HIS GAY FAG DOG", and we received a demand to take it down... we'd take it down. Not because the threat intimidated us, but because the article's not worth keeping, let alone fighting to keep. pillow talk 22:41, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

We'll never know. Wikia apparently refuses to discuss it. --Pleb SYNDROME _{CUN medicate (butt poop!!!!)} 22:55, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

OK, I'm close to angry with this one... Syndrome... please don't misquote me. Thank you. -- sannse (talk) 23:46, April 2, 2010 (UTC)sannse (talk) 23:46, April 2, 2010 (UTC) (OK, so I lied... I'm more than just close.)

Chill, sannse. I'm not referring to when you said you were busy in IRC (in fact, I made that edit before you replied). I'm referring to Wikia's complete silence about the matter and the fact that they didn't consult with anyone about it. Unless Usuario:Bola counts? --Pleb SYNDROME _{CUN medicate (butt poop!!!!)} 04:46, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Syndrome, when you say "Wikia" here, you are saying "sannse". Other than Angela kindly replying to a forum topic because I'm currently juggling a lot with fewer people to help me than usual, this is my responsibility. -- sannse (talk) 23:16, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

I (rather abruptly, all apologies) addressed it in #wikia, and sannse was very helpful in addressing the issue to me. All it takes is a little patience. sannse is a busy person, and while it may be an important issue to us at Uncyclopedia, Wikia and their staff have a lot to manage. Let's just have patience, cut sannse and Wikia some slack, and be cordial about this one. We're unlikely to get answers or compromise if we're attacking our host or jumping to conclusions. Just be cool guys. --EMC ^[TALK] 09:00 Apr 3 2010

I'm not attacking anyone. Don't imply that I am. --Pleb SYNDROME _{CUN medicate (butt poop!!!!)} 07:35, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

I was speaking in generalities about attacking people. Don't imply that I implied that you were attacking anyone, because what I implied was that you were jumping to conclusions, which you did when you said that Wikia refuses to discuss this. --EMC ^[TALK] 22:27 Apr 4 2010

Don't imply that I'm jumping to conclusions just because I expect to see a reason when Wikia puts its foot down at the same time said foot-putting down is done. Take a lesson from George Bush. He made up reasons before invading Iraq. If he made up reasons after the invasion, that would be entirely unacceptable. You may, however, imply that I implied that you implied that I was attacking anyone. --Pleb SYNDROME _{CUN medicate (butt poop!!!!)} 02:37, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Also, I forgot to say, thanks EMC :) -- sannse (talk) 00:38, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to sue you... in ENGLAND! • Spang • ☃ • talk • 23:07, 02 Apr 2010

Maybe it was some meme of theirs. Would you be happy if they deleted "Mr winkler is GAY" if an English teacher claiming to be Mr. Winkler came forth and demanded it deleted? I hate to bring ED into this, but they purposefully "parody" real people who are much lesser-known with more venom and spite than we ever have and will (as per our guidelines on cyberbullying) and they as well cannot be legally held accountable on a libel basis: from a legal standpoint, the DMCA, which is applicable to Wikia because Wikia's servers are located in the United States, states that people cannot control their own image (photographs here, which a large amount of defamation cases center around) if it is used contrarily to its original purpose so long as copyright laws are respected, particularly in parody, such as the legal case of Crook v. Diehl. A person need-not be notable or well-known (that may be a qualification for Wikipedia, but it's not a legal qualification for parody), and given that anything published on Uncyclopedia or our other language versions is expressed as parody and satirical in content, a legal case against Wikia on the basis of libel would not stand in any American court, even more-so since this Ramoncín gay faggot fucktard piece of shit homo spic does not, to our knowledge, live or have legal status in the United States. Wikia probably wants to avoid any legal fees or reputational damage that might result from such a case though. --EMC ^[TALK] 23:14 Apr 2 2010

All's I've ever heard is that Ramoncín is the act of going to hell from getting fellatio from Top Ramen. I never knew he was a real person.  ~ Avast Matey!!! Happytimes are here!*  (talk) (stalk) Π   ~  ~  02 Apr 2010 ~ 23:43 (UTC)

Rataube: I would rather discuss legal issues via email (and would rather discuss Inciclopedia issues on Inciclopedia)

Everyone else: Yes, I realize that there just ain't been enough drama around recently, and a really good "WIKIA IS EBIL" thread would be a great way to improve on that... but, please, gimmie a break?... it's been a hell of a week. This is no more of a precedent than the 100s of times we've /not/ deleted pages that get complained about on here. (Hey, Rabbi, you know that article you edited recently is horribly antisemitic and everyone who edited it should burn in hell forever, or something, right?). In this case, I suspect keeping the article may be more bother than it's worth (as the off-Wikia version of Frickipedia decided about their own article on the subject), but that's not clear yet. -- sannse (talk) 23:46, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

All right, I gave my answer over there. But I still think uncyclopedians may want to know about this precedent, which for some unspecified reason that can't be told in public, goes against the norm (the 100s of other times).--Rataube 12:42, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Rataube, as I've said - no more of a precedent than the many other times I deal with this sort of thing by saying "no" :) And no different from many of those times that I do exactly that without discussing it publicly. --sannse (talk) 23:16, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Baseless Speculations

From what I can it tell, it looks like Wikia is afraid of an actual legal threat in this instance. Either:

1. It will be forced to fight a lawsuit in court, and despite the fact that they would probably win, they don't want to incur the legal costs
2. Possibly, they will forced, or have a reasonable chance of being forced, to reveal the IP addresses of the editor, who may then face legal action under Spanish Law.
3. Or, possibly, Wikia itself is safe from legal threats and injunctions, but an anonymous ip edited in a method that is libelous under Spanish Law. Therefore, the plaintiff in question would already have access to the info he would want from Wikia, and could simply get an injunction against the ip's ISP provider.
4. Wikia might just be gay and retarted and fat. --Mn-z 14:43, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Two out of three dear -- sannse (talk) 23:16, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

I'm guessing you mean Wikia (and by Wikia, I mean Jimbo Wales, not Sannse) is gay and retarted, but not fat, because ebil corporations can't be fat. --Mn-z 02:47, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

I take it you haven't been to their offices. • • • Necropaxx (T) {~} Monday, 02:56, Apr 5 2010

Wikia does not have offices, Jimbo Wales runs it out of his mother's basement. --Mn-z 03:04, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

It should be pointed out that IP's are the opposite of anonymous. • Spang • ☃ • talk • 16:18, 03 Apr 2010

NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH LEGAL SYSTEM --nldr 00:13, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Amongst their weaponry are such diverse elements as fear, unfairness, ruthless inefficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to Francisco Franco's successor, and nice red bullfighting uniforms. --Mn-z 01:57, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

I lol'd. pretty hard actually. IP addresses should take a class on how not to be seen, that would resolve the whole mess. Or they all might wind up dead, either way... [1]-- Sir SF13 (Talk) GUN WotM RotM FBotM VFH SK Maj. ΥΣΣ 00:49 EST 5 April, 2010

Just a quick thought on this...

...if Wikia was really into controlling content on Uncyc, would we have so many references to Jimbo Wales here? Nominally Humane! some time Sunday, 22:34, Apr 4 2010 UTC

That's just because everyone at Wikia feels the same way about him. • • • Necropaxx (T) {~} Sunday, 22:51, Apr 4 2010

And Jimmy Wales seems to think there's humor on this site or something. "For example, if you go to Uncyclopedia, you will find something very different from Wikipedia. You're going to laugh and have fun reading it," he says. He must not come here often. --EMC ^[TALK] 22:59 Apr 4 2010

...it is not a serious site, it is all a joke. I'm offended - we're very serious people! Nominally Humane! some time Monday, 03:01, Apr 5 2010 UTC

I know! How dare he imply my stories of cows jumping over moons be that of humour! I'm trying to warn the populace that this is a serious threat to homeland security and he calls it a joke! MegaPleb • Dexter111344 • Complain here 04:23, April 5, 2010 (UTC)