Forum:Vote to strip llwy of admin rights

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Vote Closed: Llwy has removed her own admin rights voluntarily

It's come to the point where llwy has demonstrated that there needs to be serious reconsideration about her status as an administrator here. Aside from previous allegations of sockpuppetry, which I won't go into here, she's shown that she seems to be incapable of impartiality when it comes to doling out punishment and dealing with users she thinks are causing trouble. She's both been the cause of and gotten involved with petty disputes both on the forums and IRC, with a propensity for using her position as an administrator to come out on top, at least in her mind. So with a lot of thought and discussion with other users, I've decided to open up a vote to settle this issue once and for all.

Vote: To strip llwy of administrator rights or not

Score: 7

•  For. For all the reasons listed above. - Not particularly sincere, Sir ColinAYBCUNVFHWhoringMore Whoring at 23:45, Sunday 03 August 2014 -

  Edit: #freemadclaw - Not particularly sincere, Sir ColinAYBCUNVFHWhoringMore Whoring at 23:48, Sunday 03 August 2014 -

•  For. per http://llwy-ar-lawr.tk —  (talk) (contributions) 23:45:53 2014/08/03 UTC
•  For. mostly as an observer. Goodwood (talk) 23:47, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
•  Against. (vote struck, I am not an admin, but I still agree that) this is just stupid. get a room, punch a pillow, but striping rights, like some kind of zebra...wait, oh, stripping rights???? Perverts! (still a stupid idea, this admin spins circles around uncy before breakfast. get a room.) Aleister 23:47 3=8=14
  • Just FYI, this isn't a spur-of-the-moment, we're-sexy-and-we-know-it thing. A mountain of evidence is being constructed and will soon be posted for all to see. Goodwood (talk) 00:18, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
    • FYI, people who use IRC maybe use it like an echo-chamber sometimes, and when the echoes turn mean then watch the silverware and jake the jack of hearts because then it's every clone for himself. IRC is not uncy, this is uncy, where the public bytes live. And putting up a vote to unseat a few people's unfave is doing what? It's trying to unseat other people's fave. So unless we want to end up like Leonardo in Titanic, who the bitch wouldn't share her wooden door with and so he sunk to deeply sad music, everyone may consider easing off the pressure and let the bird fly, or some metaphor which takes into account birds. Aleister a few minutes later, in bird minutes.
•  Against. Oh please. Snarglefoop (talk) 23:54, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
• Wet pussy. Llwy can be immature at times. Radical Rocko ❤ (I'm listening...) 00:45, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
•  For. Believe it or not, I don't take any sort of enjoyment out of voting this particular way. There have been rumblings of a vote to remove llwy's rights as far back as three months ago, and as many of the users in #uncyclopedia can attest to, I had every intention of voting in favor of llwy keeping her sysops until this last week or so. For all of her faults, it's still incredibly hard to forget how just several weeks ago, llwy was an ever-so-slightly awkward girl who most of us had lovely conversations with on IRC. Blame it on the extra tools or what have you, but the llwy we know today is completely different from the llwy who first signed up. Instead of keeping that awkward girl who was constantly asking for administrative advice while afraid of over-stepping her boundaries, she's been replaced by someone who seems to revel in paranoia, immaturity, and the opportunity for creating dramatic situations.
  For me personally, this was the moment I realized something had to be done. After numerous attempts of calming the situation, llwy resorted to flat-out harassment simply because I dared to question the authenticity of her claims that Snarglefoop is her father and not a sockpuppet, and eventually setting me to /ignore. Whether or not you personally buy into this sockpuppet theory, I think everyone can agree that her attitude was undiplomatic and completely unbecoming of an administrator. The following day, she continuously reverted my edits to a template which she deemed redundant (fair enough), but when I tried asking her to remove the ignore temporarily so I could explain why my edits were perfectly legitimate, I was told she and I aren't on speaking terms.
  For what it's worth, this isn't the first time she's been problematic to the overall community, having openly used sockpuppets for voting purposes and threatened to create more in the future. But what I find most troublesome is that when things don't go her way, she resorts to threatening suicide. There's also a whole spiel in that section of her talk page in which she's warned for removing comments related to Snarglefoop from other user's talk pages, not to mention removing the user rights of those she disagrees with, for which Frosty had to revert. Add to this her (debatably) unjust banning of Madclaw and you have a user who I feel is unsuited for administratorship.
  In closing, I do hope that regardless of the outcome of this vote, llwy sticks around and continues doing what she does best: editing. And to llwy, I can only say that I'm truly sorry if you see this as a form of personal harassment or trolling, but I feel the Uncyclopedia community is better off at this point with you serving only as an editor, and judging from your suicide threat several weeks ago, perhaps you're better off without the extra responsibility too. And as I prepare to hit the submit button now, I notice llwy has banned herself and left Uncyclopedia, so make of this what you will. — SG1|Hereish ^{[citation needed]} 00:54, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
•  For. SG1's evidence pretty much says everything I need to say. Llwy often acts based on her personal feelings towards others, with the drama resulting in this forum being a key factor, as well as going on to accuse those she disagrees with of attacking her whilst using ad hominems herself towards the same user in this instance. It's unfortunate that it has come to this but sadly there is a general agreement of discomfort within IRC regarding Llwy's status as an admin in light of all of this and this is where we now stand. -- Lost Labyrinth • (t) • (c) • (a) 01:03, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
• For When the idea of deoping llwy was floated a few months ago I hoped it would not have to come to this. However, llwy's recent actions both on the site and on IRC are highly reprehensible. On July 1st she started a drama forum initially to create support for more rules on IRC (only her and Snarglefoop were in support, everyone else voted against or abstained), but then later it became clear the purpose of the forum was some sort of revenge on Madclaw and Geeky. The drama over shock images on IRC culminated in llwy adding her personal opinion to a MediaWiki page without any community support and then she quit the site for a few days. Despite taking a break, she has been seemingly unable to put aside her anger towards Geeky and Madclaw, which has resulted in her denying Madclaw the right to vote and then when he continued to try to vote she banned him for a week. Several members of the community tried to have a reasonable discussion with her about this misuse of power on IRC today, even going so far as to start a vote to free Madclaw. Despite this llwy was unwilling to even shorten the length of Madclaws ban, and put him on /ignore so he could not contest his ban with her via IRC. There is also this forum which appears to have been an attempt at starting more drama. I have a profound respect for llwy as I know that being an admin is never easy, but I feel that it would be best for everyone if llwy were deopped. -- The Zombiebaron 01:09, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
•  For - I assure you this is anything but personal. Llwy seems to be having multiple nervous breakdowns lately, and it's probably best to take her finger away from the red button. She was opped a little too soon for her own good and she can be deopped just as quickly. -- Kippy the Elf Talk Works ☃ 01:12, Aug. 4, 2014
• Comment. LLwy has said (personal communication) she has left for good anyway, so there's no reason to de-op her at this point. Snarglefoop (talk) 01:29, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
• Sitting on the fence Their have been forums like this in the past on Lyrithya that although with different circumstances, exploded violently in a fit of useless drama. Fighting fire with more fire is not the best solution here. ~Sir Frosty (Talk to me!) 01:33, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
• Regretful boner. Doesn't make me happy to do this. I'd literally rather have done anything else today than vote on this. But per Zombiebaron, SG1 and Kip, I think it would be best for everyone right now if we de-opped llwy. I do believe this is the first time I've ever voted in favor of de-opping an admin and it leaves a sour taste in my mouth, but I think this is best for her mental state as well as the wiki's state. As for the buildup to this, stop kidding yourselves. Madclaw has absolutely repeatedly harassed llwy leading into this, and while her reaction to the admin voting forum situation was overblown and uncalled for, there was precedent for this brawl between them. Everyone acting like Madclaw is a Saint to be freed from the shackles of persecution has obviously been turning a blind eye toward his abrasive behavior. I'm also not sure whether the mostly-IRC users commenting in this forum should be taken at full value. llwy has ascended to a legendary status as some kind of war criminal in the IRC, for exactly the reasons that Aleister points out above. It's an echo chamber, where some of the lowest common denominator of discussion grows and grows until the most hateful and meme-worthy nonsense rules the topic of every other conversation, festering into a completely overblown representation of a user as a person, just because some racist from Finland and some 4chan troll got together and yelled about it for a half an hour and the baser instincts of many of the others users turn on and take off for the races. The effect tends to be specifically harsh on women, and of course it is, this is the internet. So while I do think that de-opping is the best decision right now, I'm not without my reservations and I do think that at least on some levels llwy has gotten a raw deal here. Unfortunately, her ability to deal with that raw deal has been sub-par, and I hope she'll be able to take some time to reflect on that and think about what could have been done better. -RAHB 02:04, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

  Very reasonable RAHB. What if she or he comes back within the next couple of days in a mood to talk it out per your last couple of sentences. This was thrown at Llwy out of the blue, a coup organized on IRC to deop an admin. Once an admin is in there should have to be an extremely good set of reasons which outweigh any good the admin does, and in this case that does not exist no matter how many people exaggerate their pain. And only admins should be voting on something like this, if there even is a rule about it, so until all the admins, far and wide, weigh in I don't expect the admins to take this seriously. Back to the point. This happened very quickly, an attack out of the blue, like a hawk carrying off a squirrel, and some time should be given to access the situation. Maybe llwy can come up with a solution rather than quit. But, ya, admins only or it didn't happen. Aleister imnho 2:47 4-8-14

  Uncyclopedia is a semi-democratic community. The community voted her to be an admin, so I think the community can vote on this. I would however agree with the sentiment that people should be taking all factors into account on this, and not just be voting from an emotional or personal place. This is a serious matter, even though I'm still wearing my giraffe-skin jacket and electronic shoes modeled off of Big Mouth Billy Bass. -RAHB 03:03, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

  I'm not RAHB obviously, nor am I an administrator, but I suppose I'll chime in anyway and address a couple points simply because I was active on IRC throughout all of this and I'm familiar with the fuss on the wiki as well. If any of this is incorrect, feel free to correct me RAHB, but I'm primarily speaking out of my own experiences with Llwy.
  "This was thrown at Llwy out of the blue, a coup organized on IRC to deop an admin." — This isn't the case at all. There's been many attempts to calm Llwy down and let her know that she was acting too harsh over the past several months (both on wiki and IRC), as noted above. I personally brought the issue up with her via private message, as did several others, and we made the impending de-sysop vote perfectly clear should she continue with her behavior. I've also heard (and perhaps this is something RAHB can elaborate a little more on) that there were discussions via email between Llwy and several other administrators regarding her behavior. Her response to the issues addressed on IRC and her talk page seemed to indicate her belief that everyone else was either 1) crazy, 2) a troll, or 3) out to damage her, and that there was no need to change her behavior. I know others were abrasive with her as RAHB put it, but personally speaking, I felt I was nothing but respectful to her until she began hurling insults. More importantly, despite the abrasiveness of others, I don't think there's anyone in this supposed IRC coup who actually wanted for things to end this way Llwy. Otherwise, this forum would have been created months ago when the topic was first brought up.
  "And only admins should be voting on something like this" — Personally, I disagree. If basic users are able to vote in new administrators, then there's absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be able to vote existing administrators out. If such votes were restricted only to fellow administrators, you'd run a greater risk of the wiki turning into something resembling a dictatorship, assuming something of the sort is even possible to equate to wiki standards.
  "Maybe llwy can come up with a solution rather than quit" — I'm hoping this is the case, but given her reluctance in the past to respond to such concerns diplomatically or even maturely, I don't see that happening for the foreseeable future. — SG1|Hereish ^{[citation needed]} 03:17, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

  Yeah, I'd say that's fair, I agree with that. As for the e-mail correspondence, I don't know what the conversations she had with anybody else were, I haven't seen them. My particular correspondence intoned that it would be a bad idea to continue forcing the issue with this conflict with Madclaw (this was back when she quit the first time, a few weeks ago I believe?), and while agreeing with some of her points I did my best to make it clear that blocking him probably would not happen unless the situation became much worse and that the best course of action would be to find a way to either work it out or ignore it entirely. I never received a response to that e-mail. -RAHB 03:25, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

  (edit conflict, in my time, oh lord, in my time, edit conflict, oh lord) Yes, for sure, the ball is in Llw's court. I've seen very little here (IRC does not count, it is a different website) other than reasonableness from Llwy, outside of that suicide thing, which is not cool, and her or his comments usually sum up the situation quite well from a reasonable point of view. It's all points of view, you know, everyone has one, everyone lives in their own universe. If it sounds reasonable from the point of view as presented, it's as real as any other point of view. I betcha a bushel and a peck that if you count all the times Llwy has been a dick to others against the tally of geese and times that people have been a dick in the other direction, she'd come out smelling like a rose. IRC does not count, it is another website. Nothing that was said there from anyone should be counted pro or con towards anything on uncyclopedia, and that goes for everyone imnho. So give it a few days, let this all sink in, iz all I'm suggesting, ,and in these kind of gang-ups like the vote to deop (the examples I'm reading kind of prove Llwy's case, imnho, so at least the full weight of evidence isn't there to deop, for Nathalie portman's sake, at least that I can see). An idea. Maybe remove her admin duties for a month, if she agrees, and this will give everyone a cool off period and still let her do the things she does so well. What about that you guys? I dunno. Aleister 3:35 4-8=14

  I do think that the general idea here is that this doesn't have to be a permanent thing, and that the proposition to de-op isn't intended as a punishment. It's intended as something that all involved parties might need right now. Llwy has had issues with the authority and pressure that come with being an admin, you can ask her yourself, she's written entire articles about that. Adding to the other inherent emotional issues that seem to be at play there, and that this seems to have spurred something on, I think it's best for her to have a cool off. And I think it's best for the community that we don't have to go through something like all of these forums once a month and have the distraction of all of this getting in the way of writing and running the website. If llwy can demonstrate a further developed understanding of everything involved and can show that she can operate on a more level-headed plane, I'd have absolutely no problem with re-opping her again whenever it would be determined that that would be the time for it. As for the "gang up" comments, see SG1's first point. This has been something that's been an issue and llwy has been aware of (even suggesting her own de-opping several times) for quite a while, not just on the IRC, but plenty on the wiki. -RAHB 03:46, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

  I await her answer, which should be quite good if the past is pro-log. You make purrfect sense, but why not end the de-op, give her an all-parties-agreed-upon month break as an admin, and then she gets it back and we all see where everyone is at. All or nothing isn't cool, on a wiki, imnho. But it's a learning curve too, and not only for one "side" or the other. I came here to edit Asian women, and so I'd better do a few minutes on it before I dwell elsewhere for a cupcake and a fiver. Aleister 3:54 4-8-14

  That's certainly an idea that could be discussed (by the way I should make it clear that I'm not speaking authoritatively right now, I'm just speaking as another voice on the equal level with the others in this sea of voices). I'd be interested to see her viewpoint on that, although I'm not sure whether we'll get to see that in very near time, owing to her blocking herself infinitely and assuring that she will never return. Which is pretty unfortunate. -RAHB 04:12, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

  Aleister...during Happymonkey I asked her a simple and politely worded request to put up a site notice and got a whole string of grief from her both in a critique of demanding far too much from her and then followed by an explanation of her unstable mental state. I couldn't understand why anyone who is totally stressed out of their mind over putting up a simple site notice...would want to...or should be an admin. She even complained a few times about being FORCED to be an admin and that if I wanted things to get done then I (or you Aleister) should have taken up the offer to be an admin. Why would someone who feels victimised and forced into being an admin ... be an admin? She has stated she was leaving uncyclopedia for good several times. Why would someone who claims to want to have nothing more to do with the site...be an admin? --ShabiDOO 18:20, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

•  I really hate you guys I wanted nothing to do with this to begin with, I like llwy, and I understand her frustration. But, this seems to be the only way that this bullshit dramafest. Llwy, I'm so sorry about this. I truly am a terrible person. --The Defender of Light >Grand Warlock Danzathel Aetherwing Inventory 06:25, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
• Comment.Anyone going to give Llwy her money back? --RomArtus*Imperator ITRA (Orate) ® 08:47, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

  No, and I'm really not sure what that has to do with this vote. This is a vote about wether or not Llwy should continue to serve as an admin on this site, and up until now her status as a donor had not entered into it, because it is not related. We all really like Llwy and want her to stay a part of the community, just not in an admin role. -- The Zombiebaron 09:41, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

•  No way--WELCOME TO UNCYCLOPEDIA HELL!!!! 10:05, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
•  No adminiship She said in the forum which resulted in her in becoming an admin that she never even wanted administration status at all. And I saw a bit of drama over the fact that the User:SPIKE page was VFD'd and was recreated. But llwr made a U–turn on the article and reverted all the edits so it was like nothing ever happened to the page. Now thats bad, and on her talk page she seems to want to change the entire layout of Uncyclopedia.She should never have gotten the administration status now, and possibly not ever. Chaoarren Chaohead (talk) 12:15, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

  Yes, her very non-adminlike reversal of vandalism to a user's (or former user) user page was bad, very bad (tie-her-up bad) and is a very compeling argument for her incompetency. You are winning me over, thanks. Aleister 13:04 4-8-14

•  Against. She is a very good admin and applaud it for her. Do not take her rights away! -- MagicBus Talk to me! 17:16, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
• FOR. I'm concerned for Llwy. Taking good constructive criticism very very personally and issuing suicide threats really really worry me. I'm sure we can reconsider a vote to op Llwy some time in the future if all these problems are ever resolved. --ShabiDOO 18:07, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

  Were there suicide threats? Where? Anton (talk) 18:56, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

  Here is the diff. -- The Zombiebaron 20:20, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

•  Against. Have you read Carnegie? The first rule to communicating and dealing with others is not to criticise them. People generally respond very badly to critiques. Now, how is it possible to keep clear judgement and behave reasonably, while you are constantly attacked, while you are the person who is criticised the most? And especially when you are new to the job you are doing? Does it even seem possible? I was absent from Uncyclopedia most of July and when I came back I thought nothing changed. Yet, now I see that it is a different place, more cruel and less tolerant, and it's sad. Anton (talk) 18:55, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

  No offense dude, but the reasoning behind that vote (which you are perfectly entitled to, mind), comes across as a classic case of white-knighting. Are you striking for mangina? Goodwood (talk) 20:35, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

  Better a white knight than a black knight, imnho. One user voted to oust L because she reverted vandalism on a user page, and defends his position. These are the type of votes this outing is attracting. What a sad episode in uncy history. Aleister 00:25 5=8=14

• Against Pasta (talk) 02:11, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Ugh.

I feel like I need to take a week long shower after this. - Not particularly sincere, Sir ColinAYBCUNVFHWhoringMore Whoring at 04:18, Monday 04 August 2014 -

A week? Ironic. Are you sure you can do a week in the showers? Seems like a long long long long long time, almost like infinity minus the n's and the i's. I bet nobody could take a week in the showers, to pick a name at random, ah, Madclaw, it's way too long for a human being to take (a shower). Aleister 11:19 4=8=14

Ban all users - Not particularly sincere, Sir ColinAYBCUNVFHWhoringMore Whoring at 00:28, Tuesday 05 August 2014 -