Forum:Discord restructuring

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Hi everyone — it is incumbent upon us, due to major schisms that have arisen within our community due to the direction of our Discord channel and how it relates to the site, that we should restructure our Discord into a format that brings the Uncyclopedia community together, creates good wiki contributions, and fosters a thriving community with a positive, welcoming environment. Because this is something that is so important to the community, I would like the assistance of anybody involved in any way with the Uncyclopedia community. This is a plan that I have devised to help us solve this problem:

  Part 1: Get feedback from the community on what we want from the Discord. (now)
In a section below this, I'll be asking you guys to list some things important that are important for an Uncyclopedia Discord channel. This will help us come up with a good plan regarding how the Discord should be structured. Once this is complete, I will attempt to summarize this in a way that should help us with step 2.

  Part 2: Get feedback, based on the above, about how we should structure our Discord (general). (future)
Once we have feedback from part 1, I will ask the community to give input into general ideas as to how the Discord should be structured — this would include ideas about the ideal size of the servers or amount of weight towards different types of channels, etc., rather than a specific plan regarding the individual channels or topics.

  Part 3: Decide, based on the above, a specific plan for our Discord server(s). (future)
Once we have consensus from part 2, it will be much easier to come up with a specific plan for the amount of channels in our server(s), the topics of those channels, and other specific things relating to our new Discord structure. More details will come on this when the time comes.

Thanks for participating in this; I believe that with collaboration such as this, and with a Discord channel designed with our ideas in mind, we can bring Uncyclopedia into a new age of prosperity. —  (talk) (contributions) 05:11:30 2020/09/18 UTC

Part 1: What do we want from Discord?

I'd like for everyone who wishes to participate to name at least three things that they want to get out of our Discord channel and why. These can be anything from specific to general, such as "places to talk about the wiki", "a safe space to talk to friends", "a place to engage in voice chat", "a space to talk about current events", or anything else at all. Please avoid structure/channel-based talk, that is for part 2. I'll start this now and give it two weeks before I come back and see if there is a good amount of consensus. I would also encourage you all to make this an open discussion, with people replying to one another and bouncing off ideas, as long as it is done in a civil manner. You are also welcome to add on to your post if you think of more things later. —  (talk) (contributions) 05:11:30 2020/09/18 UTC

Guiding Questions

Feel free to add your own guiding questions regarding part one if you'd like.

• What are some aspects of an ideal Uncyclopedia server(s)?
• What aspects of Uncyclopedia should the server embody?
• What should be the main goal of our Discord server(s)? —  (talk) (contributions) 06:04:28 2020/09/18 UTC

Feedback from Community

Y (talk) – contribs (new • del) • edit-count • block (rem • list) • all logs • groups • checkuser

1. One thing that's important to me is that we have a majority focus on the wiki. I think that our Discord should be primarily focused on the wiki and have that as its forefront in order to show to new users that we care about the wiki and contributing to it. I also feel like this will shift our focus into a wiki-related direction and keep us from straying off into tangential matters.
2. Another thing that's important to me is that we have at least some space where any/all discussion is allowed. I think what was great about our IRC channel is that our discussion could go anywhere and everywhere, and this definitely contributed to the spice of Uncyclopedia and created our own brand and direction that separated us from other sites.
3. A third thing that's important to me is that we are extremely welcoming and helpful to new users on the Discord. Our Discord is a great vehicle for helping new users, and because of Discord's popularity and ease of use, it can be a great tool for bringing people over and making sure they're accustomed to the site. —  (talk) (contributions) 05:11:30 2020/09/18 UTC

PF4Eva (talk) – contribs (new • del) • edit-count • block (rem • list) • all logs • groups • checkuser

This is long overdue. I agree with everything you just said, Y. I've been on lots of message boards with both on- and off-topic/general discussion forums. There isn't much I can add other than "all of the above." Of course, we need the Wiki discussion; that's the whole point, right? We need to allow potpourri discussion. We need to welcome new users with open arms and support the future stars of internet comedy/satire. And voice chatting/streaming is fun. PF4Eva, the President of Imagination Vote for me My tax returns 06:54, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

CandidToaster (talk) – contribs (new • del) • edit-count • block (rem • list) • all logs • groups • checkuser

1. I think our Discord server should complement and add to the wiki, and I don't think this will conflict with the people who just want to talk to their friends. People were able to discuss wiki issues, collaborate on articles, argue about stuff, etc., all on just one channel in IRC. We can condense all the non-wiki related talk to maybe two or three channels, instead of the twenty-one we have now.
2. Although I do have a preference for what I think the Discord server should be like, I don't really have any strong convictions about it. We're all on the same team, after all.
3. I don't have a third thing to add. User:CandidToaster/sig 07:02, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Cassie (talk) – contribs (new • del) • edit-count • block (rem • list) • all logs • groups • checkuser

For me... the server just needs to both be fun and functional, while also providing a space for Uncyclopedians, both new and old, to be able to discuss Uncyc proper and ask questions about it. It should be a place both for Uncyclopedia AND its community (and not only the latter).  Cassandra  (talk) 11:00pm  September 27, 2020

MrX (talk) – contribs (new • del) • edit-count • block (rem • list) • all logs • groups • checkuser

So as you guys know, I'm only rarely on Discord. I thoroughly enjoy it, but I don't always have the time to join the chat while also editing here and juggling IRL stuff. Here are my thoughts (hopefully organized correctly):

1. An ideal Uncyclopedia server should be a place where we can discuss important wiki matters but also be a place for general, any/all discussion. Perhaps the "General" section should be where any/all discussion can occur, and this certainly can include matters related to the wiki, and then maybe we should have a section where we only allow discussion of wiki matters. Hopefully this second section would still be checked as frequently as the first. I would promise to do my part when I am on Discord.
2. I guess I kinda see this question as being very similar to the first. I think maybe I gave my opinion on both above.
3. In some ways also similar, our goals should be, as others have already stated, to be a place where we can discuss wiki matters, have fun, and of course be very welcoming to new users. I think our Discord channel currently does all of that really well, but perhaps a wiki-only section might help with the first. All things considered, I personally don't feel there are any problems with it. I'm not saying they don't exist, it's just that I'm on so rarely that I don't really witness any issues that may have arisen before. And even if there weren't problems, that doesn't mean that discussing ways to improve isn't necessary. Some reorganizing of the sections or whatever they're supposed to be called could most likely be a great help. MrX blow me 16:38, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Kakun (talk) – contribs (new • del) • edit-count • block (rem • list) • all logs • groups • checkuser

1. Switch to one channel for admins (for bans/other drama) and one for everyone. The rest are unnecessary.

   Hi Kakun, I appreciate this opinion, but this kind of stuff should be saved for Part 3. —  (talk) (contributions) 18:36:36 2020/09/18 UTC

   OK sorry. I meant that I expect less drama, at least in the main channel. ~ Kakun · talk 19:22, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

2. People should promote their new articles so that other people would help improve them and nominate them at VFH. That is the main purpose of the channel. Also we need more collabs and the channel can help that. For other stuff we have talk pages.
3. Bring Mhaille & Roza back. ~ Kakun · talk 17:00, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Zombiebaron (talk) – contribs (new • del) • edit-count • block (rem • list) • all logs • groups • checkuser

I'd like to start out by thanking Y for making this forum; I've been trying to have this discussion for months via Discord and we've been unable to make progress on the issues. I think this topic is part of a much larger and more important topic that I started writing about a few months ago: what is Uncyclopedia, and what do we want it to be? To me, Uncyclopedia is a wiki and a chat server and a community of contributors that use one or the other or both. Uncyclopedia is more than that too, the combination of those ingredients can make for a truly unique collaborative art experience. I feel that in recent years we have lost sight of what makes Uncyclopedia a special place, and the mostly off-topic nature of the chat server reflects that. The magic of working with people all over the world to make each other laugh is Uncyclopedia's unique gift to the world. I believe the ultimate goal of the Uncyclopedia Discord Server should be to compliment the Uncyclopedia Wiki, and the main focus of our community should be the production of new Uncyclopedia content and maintaining the content we already have. It is my hope that through the process outlined in this forum we are able to refocus the Discord server to more effectively collaborate with each other. -- The Zombiebaron 23:28, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Kippy (talk) – contribs (new • del) • edit-count • block (rem • list) • all logs • groups • checkuser

I only want two things out of our server, and those are the bare minimum of what everyone else wants:

1. To serve and promote the wiki.
2. To be fun.

The most ideal Uncyclopedia is one where these two things are harmonious and complement each other, rather than come into conflict. -- Kip the Egg Talk Works 07:31, Sep. 27, 2020

Nicolassequeira (talk) – contribs (new • del) • edit-count • block (rem • list) • all logs • groups • checkuser

Thanks for alerting me to this poll here. As someone who's been banned from the Discord for at least a month at this rate, I do feel some changes are in order, and it's good to see that as per usual Uncyclopedia remains a bastion of free thought and varying degrees of input and thought. Good to see people who vote, people who care, and people who're willing to speak up. With that said, here are my answers to the above three thought-provoking inquiries:

1. An ideal Uncyclopedia server will have at least one channel dedicated solely to article creation and editing, with pinned guides outlining formatting and rhetorical techniques as a guide for newer users. The general chat is fine, although I do think your definitions of what "general" means were a bit confined- for instance, I was told comics could not be discussed in general, and as a full-time mail order cartoonist, I don't regularly discuss much else. In addition, if a channel has become useless through inactivity, it should be archived and moved to a new section. In particular, the "spam month from Hell" channel really served no purpose aside from a chaotic jumble of unrelated words and images. I would suggest doing away with it, or at the very least opening it for one month a year. Nobody needs a whole spam year.
2. The server should be light-hearted and frivolous, with lotsa wisecracks and an aesthetic as distinct as the Wiki's aesthetic. We need a server that screams Uncyclopedia, embodies the site in every facet. In addition, there should be less heavy stuff, and less loaded questions. I was kicked out over a loaded question, and I haven't been allowed back on in a month. There ought to be a channel besides General for really heavy stuff, such as Islam and whatnot, and that way anyone with strong political beliefs can go in there and talk it out, and General can remain drama-free. The solution isn't to ban someone simply because their views aren't understood, or because a conversation gets heated and it's decided that one fellow is in the wrong and the others are completely in the right- the solution, I would say, is to separate the light and fluffy from the more serious and topical.
3. The main goal of the Uncyclopedia Discord should be both to serve as an extension of the site but also to keep Uncyclopedia going through group effort, and for conversations in a satirical and humorous vein. Uncyclopedia as a site has a strong identity and mass appeal, but the Discord is somewhat generic and lackluster. I didn't mind it so much while I was on there, but in retrospect there wasn't much pizzazz to it. Also, public relations seem to be at an all-time low. With luck, and strategy, and some good PR moves, Uncyclopedia could be raised to the status of Ebaum's World or Something Awful- and the fact both of those are waning in popularity and use indicates to me that independently-run sites such as this have a chance at grabbing that niche market and becoming more active.

Anyhoo, those are my thoughts. I don't really know what's been going on with the Discord, as I've been banned from there, but I do hope once it's remodeled I'll be allowed back on, or perhaps you fellas can take another vote and decide amongst yourselves if I should be let back on. I dunno. One thing is for sure- the Discord does have its flaws, and it's nice to see you noticed them and opened this forum. I look forward to a true Uncyclopedia renaissance up in this hizzaz. Nicolassequeira (talk) 02:47, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Frosty (talk) – contribs (new • del) • edit-count • block (rem • list) • all logs • groups • checkuser

delete discord ~Sir Frosty (Talk to me!) 08:54, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Hipponias (talk) – contribs (new • del) • edit-count • block (rem • list) • all logs • groups • checkuser

I'm generally active on Discord, though not always on the Uncyclopedia server. To be honest, most things about the wiki should be done on the wiki. It's just as easy to click a link to go to an archived discussion after 10 years than if it was yesterday. Discord? It's bloody hard scrolling to a discussion after 10 hours. While it is useful for general chatting and other things that would otherwise clog up the website, it's not the best for serious matters like this. An ideal server should allow informal discussions and quick Q&As, but make clear that the best place to do wiki stuff... is on the wiki (shocking, I know). The Discord should have:

1. A wiki-discussion area (distraction-free)
2. General chat area (general discussion, wiki or not)
3. Off-topic area

Remove the NSFW stuff, why do we even need it? If whoever created the channel is adamant that he/she wants to post that stuff, just do it in a private server.

Other than that, it's basically the same structure we have now, but more organized and with more focus towards the actual wiki.

Meta-discussion about Part 1

This is where you can discuss things about this discussion, or ask questions, or anything else related to this that isn’t actually your response to the question above. —  (talk) (contributions) 06:04:28 2020/09/18 UTC

I'm going to put this here, since technically this isn't my answer to the question. I think the call to restructure the Discord was in part a bit of an overreaction, and possibly no longer even necessary or relevant. The argument for doing so was that we were treating our Discord like a private little clubhouse, rather than an official Discord for our site. To list a few of the notable instances of the apparent 'clubhouse-ification' of our Discord:

• Idiots such as myself accidentally gave out personal information on other users, a consequence of treating the Discord like it's a private server between close friends.
• PF4Eva himself also used to be pretty spammy in the off-topic channels. Either going into excruciating detail recapping some tv show he was currently watching as if he was live-tweeting it, or spamming the channels with tweets and clickbait articles.
• There was an argument that in general a handful of us were using the Discord as our own pop culture discussion site. That's been toned down a little bit since we created a new server for such discussions. I personally never saw that as any kind of huge problem in the first place. It's like when Frosty took issue with Forum:Count to a million and put an end to it. He didn't make a single person any more productive for the site. He just poo-poo'd on everyone's fun.
• A new user came along and was, to put it one way, opinionated and outspoken, and often his opinions, worldview and general disposition would not 'jive' with some of the rest of us. Supposedly, this is evidence that our server was an echo chamber that's potentially hostile to dissenting noobs.

I believe the first three points here were resolved and are no longer a problem. The only remaining issue will be how we'll get along if or when Little Nicky is unbanned from the server. With most of the conflicts seemingly behind us, I'm generally in favor of the status quo. That being said, I'm very open to any suggestions for changes. -- Kip the Egg Talk Works 07:28, Sep. 27, 2020

I completely disagree with your assertion that this process is "an overreaction, and possibly no longer even necessary": as PF4Eva says, "This is long overdue". The argument for undertaking this process is outlined at the top of this page, and nowhere does it allude to any of the things you talk about. Comparing a community-driven project to make the Uncyclopedia Discord fun for everyone to Frosty deleting Count to a million is a false equivalence. On a personal level, I have tried to tell you for literally months on Discord in private and in public that I want the change how we run the server, and your response so far has been only to laugh in my face. Hopefully on the wiki we can achieve a better level of communication. -- The Zombiebaron 11:07, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

We don't necessarily need Discord to improve communication. We could use IRC instead, or use something like Wikimedia Phabricator, but for Uncyclopedia. Gale5050 Complain about me! 13:44, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Our IRC channel is currently set up to post in our Discord server, so there is no need to choose between IRC and Discord. -- The Zombiebaron 19:46, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Zombiebaron, I'm not trying to laugh in your face. If I didn't think there was much of a problem before, with your comment I genuinely don't see what the problem even is anymore. You've told me repeatedly, particularly in private messages, that the problem was that we treat Discord like a private clubhouse and not an official server for a website, and I concede that there was truth to that. Now many - not all, perhaps, but many - of the big 'clubhouse-ification' problems seem to have died down. I assumed the clubhouse conundrum had at least waned, but you're telling me that not only am I wrong about that (maybe I am), but that I'm not even playing the same ballpark in my comprehension of what the problem even is? It isn't any of the things I outlined? Not the PF4Eva spam that you complained to me about and used it to suggest we make the hobby channels V.I.P. so as to not alienate noobs? Not the Nicolas stuff that you literally said highlighted a schism in our community? (Being one of the aforementioned noobs.) If the clubhouse-ification isn't any one of the things I outlined, then what is it? What are we doing in Uncyclopedia's Discord that we shouldn't be? I just don't know what went wrong. -- Kip the Egg Talk Works 16:33, Sep. 27, 2020

That isn't exactly true. I do know what your grievance is. You feel the Discord server is moving away from Uncyclopedia's ultimate goal, vision, destiny of being a place to foster collaborative creativity, and I'm focusing on the trees rather than the forest. Okay, read you loud and clear. The thing is, many users don't want to get rid of the off-topic nature of the server, or at-least the off-topic channels. It makes the place a little more fun and loose, and often that in-and-of-itself will spark inspiration for the wiki. The way I see it, it's a back-and-forth feedback loop. Happiness begats happiness.

But if you still believe the problem is that off-topic nature weighs too heavily against the wiki creativity vision, then I'm open to restructure the Discord, such as the suggestion to make the off-topic channels special and V.I.P. Again, my position on this issue is: I don't see much of a issue at all, but whatever, fuck it. Go with the flow. -- Kip the Egg Talk Works 17:16, Sep. 27, 2020

I don't know who these "many users" you refer to are, but I look forward to hearing from them on this page. -- The Zombiebaron 19:39, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

While we're waiting for that, I, too, want to hear from everyone who thinks this server is too much of a clubhouse, or why the off-topic channels or nature of the server is detrimental to the overall wiki project. -- Kip the Egg Talk Works 21:43, Sep. 27, 2020

Perhaps the straw man you have been arguing against will appear, but I tend to doubt it. I have high hopes that the process outlined in this forum will produce a better version of our chat server, and I feel we should be doing something like this annually from now on. Why should we be satisfied with the status quo when we can work to make things better? -- The Zombiebaron 22:10, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Part 2: How should we structure our Discord server(s), generally speaking?

This is future discussion.

Part 3: How specifically should the Discord be structured?

This is future discussion.