User talk:Puppy/blah archive

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Hi

I'd suggest instead of being a massive pain and trying to see to it that this wiki fails, that you go and see the other one succeed. Thankyou. ~Sir Frosty (Talk to me!) 06:37, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

I don't understand. Socky said something "looked like vandalism" and undid an action. I redid it with a polite explanation that his assumption of poor faith was exactly that - an assumption, and unfounded. I've left all the features alone - community consensus has assured me that there is no interest in having me as a polite user here, but happy to take any contributions I've done elsewhere because you can. But at no stage has reverting an article to a status prior to when you started a rewrite been classed as an act of vandalism.

The article is substandard. Al reinstated the previous incarnation almost immediately when I put in the new one, and Romartus gave it a poor PEE review score.

Zombiebaron assured me that I'm wanted here, but every time I ask for anything as the author of content - or make any changes to articles - the administration here assume bad faith. Since returning late last year I've been being polite, and attacked no individuals, but I've made it very clear that I distrust the structure of this new Uncyclopedia.

I make polite requests and get summarily dismissed out of hand. People make assumptions relating to my intentions and I correct their assumption only to be blocked. Even asking that junk in my user-space be deleted gets ignored. I'm treating this site with as much respect as the administrators who had been voted in to maintain the previous site treat that, and I get attacked as though I'm trying to "destroy the site".

I'm happy for you to succeed. I've given advice on ways to improve the web traffic here - which was apparently one of your greatest concerns. I've given technical help whenever it's been asked for, but I'm treated like a villain simply because I don't want to come over to this site - a site that was created behind closed doors by only a small percentage of the community.

Even Lyrithya stated in her blog post that one of the mistakes made prior to the "move" was to not take into consideration that others in the community may have input. As one of the people with significant experience at moving the wholesale content of one Wiki to another, I would have been happy to make suggestions.

Why are you trying to create an "us and them" mentality? What have those remaining at the previous site - another wiki community, built upon the same foundations as this one credits as being it's history - done to deserve constant abuse and hatred? Even Bizzeebeever voted against my request with a statement of "out of spite". When has being spiteful towards users been a part of the ethos that created both of these sites?

And yes - I'm aware that commenting here is likely to get me a longer ban, but I refuse to go on IRC - I was banned there a while ago with no rationale, and I don't trust the team of regulars in there - and I'm not going to send an e-mail to any individual user. We created the first wiki based upon the principles of a wiki - that we work as a community. Given I have been attacked by almost every member of the "move team" since this wiki started, there remains here nobody I can trust. If I sent this via e-mail the response would likely be "lol, no" as that appears to be sufficient reason to ignore any individual user here now. I'm putting it here - so anyone who looks at changes to my talk page, or patrols edits, can see it, rather than making a forum about it.

In short, if any member of the community actually cares about sustaining a community built on respect, they can see this.

I doubt I'll be treated with anywhere near the courtesy that I'm treating others. Potato

I don't think you understand why I blocked you. You were banned for edit warring with Socky and several other administrators over contributions made to this site. You reverted back to revisions in your userspace that contained links to the Wikia site, and seem and fail to understand why those links are being replaced. It's not to reduce Wikia's traffic (seeing as these links didn't exist 3 months and the site had heaps of traffic then...) it's to get our site off the ground, it's so that people that want to stay here can click on a hardlink and not have to jump between sites. I don't know how many times I have explained this to you. All links relevant to the discussion of the move to en.uncyclopedia.co from uncyclopedia.wikia.com are being left alone as are the ones from discussion from uncyclopedia.org to uncyclopedia.wikia.com. It's purely to lift our site up a bit so we can get going and so the place is generally tidy.

You also think I have an us vs. them mentality? Well that does not explain why I helped ChiefjusticeDS clean up the Wikia site after the trolls attacked and he asked for my help, it does not explain why I gave a rather detailed vote on uncycloWikia's VFS and didn't just donkey vote on Aimsplode like so many others did.

Mean while, you have asked we delete all your content through a forum and QVFD (you got told lol no for edit warring and essentially dumping all your pages on QVFD with little reason other than "Author request") and are still unhappy about it despite the answer being "no" both times with the reason being "You don't own the content." See how nobody from this side of the fork has asked for all their contributions to be purged on UncyclWikia? It's because we know and accept you have just as much right to read and enjoy it as we do and we don't want to take it away. You have also been in several discussions on the other site about purging all mention of the fork from existence, several other discussions with SPIKE about how the Cabal is going to keep all donations for themselves (Something I find startling to be claimed by SPIKE as he claims to have never logged into the new site let alone actually have a conversation with the people behind it about his concerns) and asking me to de-op myself because you believed I was only out to harm your site, which for someone who accused me of assuming bad faith is very hypocritical...

And no I'm not going to ban you for stating your mind because I've done a lot of that myself, the reason I banned you was for edit warring and because I was generally growing weary of your attitude. If you want to discuss anything about the forking on IRC then be my guest, nobody is going to ban you for stating your concerns because as Zombiebaron said "We want you to come over" in fact we want everyone to come over ~Sir Frosty (Talk to me!) 07:38, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

csb Nominally Humane! 09:31 23 Jan

You know it's funny because I actually paid attention to your comments and you claim to be politer than everyone else here in your statement above, not to mention how you running for adminship on Wikia's version which is supposed to be for people who can demonstrate maturity... I think SPIKE even referred to your version as the mature version. ~Sir Frosty (Talk to me!) 09:52, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, but that was something of an object lesson. I'm actually very happy that you took the time and effort to respond with a level head. I know that those kind of long, measured edits take a fair amount of effort, and to dismiss them with a TLA (three letter acronym) can feel like a personal insult.

I'm stopping editing here - if you hadn't drawn me back I wouldn't have edited - but I'm now hamstrung in relating this identity back to the un.wi.com one.

Having said that, and my distrust if the way this site came together, and my decision to not come over, that doesn't mean I have no intention of ever editing here.

My concern is predominantly trust and the wiki's direction. That doesn't mean that I believe this was done with malice from the part of those that put it together. It's more that… okay, lengthier explanation that covers way too much ground, but what the hell.

I look back on various forums and decisions that have been made in the past, and the people behind them. I know most of you guys well enough to know your weaknesses as well as your strengths.

Zombiebaron has a tendency to be an autocrat. Not of of any megalomaniac desire, but that his perspective of wikis has been shaped from the inception and growth of this wiki, and he feels he knows the best way to do something. It's a form of orthodoxy combined with the capacity to act without regard for the opinions and perspectives of others that lends him to this position. And he feels it keenly when he is pressed on his decisions and takes it as a personal affront. His knowledge and capacity make him less than sympathetic and somewhat touchy. But by the same token his knowledge and capacity is what makes him a boon on any wiki.

EMC/Hottie has always been interested in working for the good of the community, and has thought outside of the box in order to do that. His energy that he put into creating and maintaining the Facebook account, twitter account, and the store are brilliant. But his capacity to follow through with multiple side projects at the same time is limited: he's not Richard Branson. He's a visionary, not a manager. (Credit to his growth on that area since taking on admin mantle, however.)

Lyrithya is a talented coder, and her Illogicopedia style of absurdity makes her a great writer. Much the same as Al, I couldn't write like her. She's slow to anger. But she also is a stickler for rules and policies. This is fine - without rules we would have anarchy. But what would Uncyclopedia be without a hint of anarchy? And while she is slow to anger, she's also slower to release a resentment.

And I could say more about yourself, Bizzeebeever, TKF, Shabidoo, Sims, Aleister, and SPIKE, Chief, Romartus and Funnybony. (And many more that I'm not going to list here.) I could also go in about Mordillo, Spang, Modus, MrN, UU, Orian, and a million other departed users.

But no matter how much I go into, the basic truth is the same - we came here as we write parody. All of us are insane in a very special way that makes Uncyclopedia - and I extend that here to encompass all various wikis under that name in differing languages - makes Uncyclopedia a special place.

And one where I feel at home.

We are the lunatics that have taken over the asylum. We believe in a form of magic that means that what should never work does, and works well.

And one of the things that has kept us alive has been having Wikia as a platform. We're not in this for the money, or the glory. This is not our job. We don't deal with the legion of complaints and threats that eventually drew other comedic sites to their death. In short the money is an afterthought, but something we need to survive. Wikia has handled a whole bundle of garbage.

They have been benevolent parents to our insanity. But parents none the less. And every parent tries to curb the greater excesses of their beloved children.

So they asked us to moderate some of the worst images on the site? Has anyone noticed that Asian women is all but untouched. They had technical issues from upgrades that damaged aspects of the site. This site has a myriad of problems and is likely to have niggly technical problems for ages to come. (Ask any of the more technical users how annoying some of Spang's scripting is, and how long it has lasted for.) They didn't allow us to have features that helped us mimic Wikipedia. They also let us continue with a monospace skin (with a faux vector css) when that had been removed from their offering.

In short, they were a boon as much as a burden. We, on the other hand, were probably more of a burden than a boon, but we were indulged.

Extending an already tortured metaphor, we may have outgrown our parent here. But rather than talking to them reasonably, we have snuck around, collected our belongings in the still of the night, and run away to join the circus. This was done with minimal input by the larger community. And now this arm is wandering around like a kid starting college, and looking for a party to join.

With the best of intentions or the most well laid out plans, it could fail. With muddied anti-Wikia sentimentality and poorly constructed plans, it could succeed, but the alternative is more likely.

So my distrust is not of intentions - even though it plays a part - but the way this was done. The community has been split. (Much the same as the community was split when it went to Wikia. I wasn't there at the time, but does anyone think for a second I didn't look into the details in our site history, and off site as well?)

It's been devious and underhanded. And the argument of “we can't say anything for fear of what Wikia would do…” The entire site has a back-up in the mirror site. Would it have been harder to recreate the site from that back-up? Yes. Would it have been impossible? Well, how many times and ways have other comedy wikis recreated themselves?

So, I don't trust this site. I hope it succeeds, but I have extreme concerns that it won't.

And with that in mind I chose to remove myself from here. The content I added to Wikia I added with a certain umbrella of protection - a pretty flimsy one, admittedly. But having it here it takes away a portion of the protection that Wikia afforded us. Do I own the content? Technically, as the author, yes, but I have foregone the ability to draw it back after it was added to the site. (If I chose to publish it in another forum without attribution to Wikia or here, or for commercial gain, as the author, I'm the only person that can.)

So I asked for it to be deleted. Not as a tantrum or a rage-quit - I decided to do that early last year when enough of the discussion about what was happening leaked through that I could read the tea-leaves.

If this site had a history and a stability would I be happy for it to be here? Hypothetically I probably would - it was one of the reasons I started editing in earnest a few years ago, rather than three years earlier when I first stumbled across it.

So, that's why I am the way I am.

Oh, and the last element. People may recall that I egged on a particular vandal back in the day when he was being an annoying troll to us all. The overall impact on that to the vandal - while he thought he had some kind of “bond” with me I became his target. Much the same as you (Frosty) were. (Or maybe are. I haven't seen him in full throttle for a while.)

By then attracting another vandal to the Wikia based site - rather than focusing here - we have the ability to contain his excesses on familiar ground rather than him attacking us here where we are weaker. It could be the vandal was from within the community. I still think that's more likely than from outside - or at the very least he was with us at one stage. An I convinced that it was one of the creators of this site? No, but by mentioning that on a forum that he would have seen - a forum that was pretty dead when I mentioned it - he felt he had succeeded. Which meant that he would continue the exact same fruitless actions in the same manner.

Trolling is a form of insanity. Insanity has been defined as “Repeating the same actions but expecting a different result.” He had his rush, and feeling of “success”. He continues to go down the same path, and will not get the “success”, so will fixate on trying to get it again by the same action. Have a look at Sannse's comments on that forum. Extend that slightly.

(I've probably just completely destroyed that ploy by explaining it. Annoyingly.)

As for removing the details of the old URI from here - other than in my user space, and on Wikipedia (as one of our feeder sites), I've left that completely alone. On Wikipedia I've tried to incorporate both sites. (Speaking of which that section relating to the fork needs to be rewritten and polished to make this site seem like the superior site. And there needs to be a direct link in the text there to here, rather than in the citations. It's an advertisement - make it attractive FFS. Can't anyone here work out how to make something superficially NPOV while making it exciting?)

One of those links changed in my userspace was in a script buried in a link that lead back to this site. The one that was on my user page lead back to the site where I was active. The same as you have a link to this site from your user page there. You all exploded when I talked about removing your links from there. Why make a differing rule here?

Yes, I will call anyone on it who says that this site is better on the Wikia site. I will illustrate your stupidity and vanity when you act stupid and vain. I will argue with you when you are being stubborn. I've been doing that for more years than most of this community have been alive. (Fuck I feel old).

I am manipulative, devious, and argumentative when the need arises. I will be patronising and condescending when anyone acts like a child. (I do the same to Romartus, Spike and the Chief when they do the same.) Over the last handful of years I have always been like that. But I have the interest of the wider community at heart.

Seriously, the Wikia based wiki has been my home. The community there were like my rather dysfunctional family. When you attack my home or my family I will strike back. And given the way that much of the community here have acted towards me over the last fortnight, I'm not alone in that.

Do I take Uncyclopedia too seriously? Probably. But it belongs to me as much as it belongs to anyone else here. Anyone who hasn't been involved in one uncyclodrama or another probably doesn't care.

If you all didn't care, then why the hell go to the effort of moving? I'm exactly the same as you. Nominally Humane! 11:41 23 Jan

Puppy...we've heard your POV a dozen times. Concede the point, realise we know where you are coming from, and move on. Please. --ShabiDOO 21:05, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

We really are not your family though. This isn't a fucking divorce or anything. It's a move of a comedy site on the internet which most members of its community thought would be beneficial for the comedy long term. 99% of the community who did not know about the move as it was happening went along with it because, hey, it's Uncyclopedia, and it's just a small and definitely beneficial change. And those who disagreed moved on. I can say what I will about Spike or Funnybony about being critical jerks about the move back on the old site, but at least they've had the sense to leave us to our own devices here. If you really had best interests in Uncyclopedia in mind, you would seriously just listen to Shabidoo and move on. -- T​K​F​​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​UU​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​CK 23:44, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Sigh I watch this page and this page only. I want to stop being drawn back here. Please stop commenting here. Nominally Humane! 12:28 24 Jan

No, Puppy. YOU need to stop treating this move like a DIVORCE. Don't "encourage your content to be deleted". What is this? Move on, dude.--  ŤäŁķ ¿Ș₮áłĶ?฿¡฿↓¡ography 00:34, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Stop

Trying to remove everything of yours. Why is this something you wanna do anyway? What's the point, Pup?--Sir Peasewhizz de New York 01:01, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

In this case, I'd have to disagree - he's perfectly within his rights to remove userspace pages, unless they are acting as templates elsewhere on the project, and being in userspace that really shouldn't be the case. -— Lyrithya ༆ 02:21, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Kinda, but this is an act of rebellion being upset with the spork. Yeah, he has the rights, but why is he doing this? What is the purpose?--Sir Peasewhizz de New York 02:24, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Look at the content of the pages I'm blanking. They're all incomplete projects, rough sketches, half-baked concepts. In short if any of those pages were mainspaced they'd be deleted. I'm not planning on completing them here, so I want to delete them. (If I complete any off site I may even add them here.) There are also Wikia links, and stuff moved into UP for anons, new users, and people planning on rewrites to do in an area where they were safe from deletion. None of it has value, beyond what others wanted to do with it. Read my user page. If you want the content, then take it. But don't start undoing the blanking of pages in my namespace that I have requested deletion of. My user space is… well… my user space. I don't screw with your user space, so please leave mine alone. And ask for my rationale before you assume poor faith. Nominally Humane! 11:07 08 Feb

Puppy, I reverted myself, dude. No harm done. ;D--Sir Peasewhizz de New York 21:09, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

I saw that after I added the above. Thank you for undoing the edits, but the harm was in the assumption I was doing this as a form of rebellion. Assume for a second that I want this site to succeed (as I've said a million times). I don't think it will, but I want there to be two Uncyclopedia sites. And, given I've said that so many times, then assume that my edits here are for the betterment of this wiki. (Edits to other wikis are a different matter, of course.) After all, who do you think updated the mirror so we had a live backup of all our content - despite Lyrithya and Zombiebaron's arguments against it. And when Wikia started talking about censoring images, who was busily moving our image database to the mirror? I'm barely here, so attacking me whenever I am on this wiki does not encourage me to want to support it. And it's further polarising our split community.

Or to look at it another way - SPIKE has been being hounded by members of the community here, and I was attacked at VFS over there not long ago. Funnybony and Al have both been criticised as “traitors” for writing over there, and chief was dragged over the coals for trying to clean up a vote that was going steadily off the rails. But in saying that, I've just mentioned two users with 40+ features, and one of the most dedicated admins and a fantastic reviewer. In short, they'd be valuable players here. How would criticising or attacking them encourage them to work with this community? And what it is doing is pushing people to work against it.

So how do you think it makes me feel when half a dozen edits in my own user space get reverted for no reason? And when those are the only edits I make here in a day, why on Earth would I want to continue editing? Nominally Humane! 09:57 08 Feb

Whoa, back up. Who called me a traitor? Seriously, I've never heard that. Is that why some of the heavy hitters here aren't voting on my VFH guy who invented soap page? Or why I was mugged in the fucking alley just walking over here? Or that could explain the bloke who tied up my mother and poked her eyes out and tattooed FORK YOU on her forehead? God damn, that explains alot. Aleister minutes later

Dude. Seriously, I used the striking out to make it a joke. I see what you were doing and therefore I corrected myself. I like you Puppy, I really do. Aleister is not a traitor. And Funnybony isn't either. And we just like to piss off SPIKE, sometimes. I'm sorry, man. I shouldn't have prejudged the blanking. And to be honest, I reverted it becuz I thought it was mainspace at first.--Sir Peasewhizz de New York 22:04, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

GOD DAMMIT AL! YOU EFFIN' EDIT CONFLICTER HAHA--Sir Peasewhizz de New York 22:04, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

@Al: “Traitor” may be an overstatement in your case. I'm referring to a conversation where someone was complaining you spend too much time on unwicom, and not enough on enunco. FB was referred to as a traitor in a conversation I had with a member via email. Nominally Humane! 10:09 08 Feb (FU edit conflict!)

Traitor's tend to edit conflict, it's one of our secret weapons. I spend most of my time on Above Top Secret, so I'm a traitor to both uncy's. hahahahahahahahahaha, a curse on both your houses and your condo. Al

@Peasey: Have a look at the criticisms thrown at me when I asked for my content to be deleted, and on a nom for admin there that I didn't ask for and don't really want. I may be being paranoid, but it's hard not to be when people are out to destroy you.

@Lyr: Are you able to email me the details of the hosting of this site, and how the budgeting works? I've mentioned before I have a lack of trust due to the “behind closed doors” aspect of how things have been done. If I can be assured that this place is 't going to be sold off to the highest bidder at a later stage - or rather that it couldn't be - I'd be happier with contributing here. Nominally Humane! 10:17 08 Feb

I voted for you to be admin, because I thought you were worthy and capable of it.--Sir Peasewhizz de New York 22:36, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Edit conflict

Why has no one edit conflicted me recently? --ShabiDOO 02:54, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Because you don't write gigantic essays. Nominally Humane! 05:28 09 Feb

There Puppy goes again, on and on and on and on, using six fucking words when maybe four would have been enough. Jerk mother fucker, blowhard two-footed emu. By the way, can I whore a read of my guy who invented soap VFH entry, it's one that I like enough to go around asking for a read, man, just spare a read? Half a read? Come on, you've got a whole one, give me half of that, man. Al nomnomnom

There is nothing worse than someone who doesn't know when to look up the word parsimony in a book that has a list of words and their definitions and then repeat that word as a mantra again and again and again and again and again and again until they learn to respect parsimony and the valuable time that people waste when they are subjected to the constant and seeming eternal dribble drabble of someone who not only fails to appreciate brevity but who also tends to sort of wander off of topic and go on about things that are wholly and entirely unrelated to to the original topic which is not only NOT RELATED but also incredibly unintersting to everyone who is reading or in general wasting their time which is sad because when I think of all of the starving children in Switzerland I start to cry until there is no liquid left in my body and I dry into a dust that flakes away when a gentle summer breeze whisps by. --ShabiDOO 21:59, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Good thing about the forking/move/whatever is the number of the conflicts I get has reduced. Very much like Switzerland. Nominally Humane! 12:36 11 Feb