Forum:VFH....again (again)

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Hello all. If you recall a little while ago I talked about a major paradigm change for VFH. I have since set up a page that one could experiment with to see how it could work. I'd now like everyone's ideas for this new endeavor. The code that I'm using is a cornucopia of features that are as-yet unutilized in my sandbox. I'm currently asking for anyone's ideas on how to make this better so we can perhaps pilot this thing sometime in the next infinity. Cheerio.-Sir Ljlego, GUN VFH FIYC WotM SG WHotM PWotM AotM EGAEDM ANotM + (Talk) 22:22, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Will it load faster than the current VFH page? Also, the big ugly box of rules on the VFH is missing on your version. Could you possibly throw that in there, and maybe simplify them (the rules) a bit? They're all big and cluttered. Other than that, I like it. --EMC ^[TALK] 23:43, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, see, here's the thing. I don't know if it'll load faster currently, as all I'm doing is cloning the VFH page and making maintenance easier. Also, it allows Rc or Brad to flip it over at whim. However, I can change that so that it's just a list similar to a forum, or a list that remains static. That's what I can do. What I cannot do is condense the rules. That's what Rc would do if we threatened him at gunpoint asked him nicely. So there you have it. Anything else?-Sir Ljlego, GUN VFH FIYC WotM SG WHotM PWotM AotM EGAEDM ANotM + (Talk) 00:00, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

There are the list pages available for those who want a condensed version, by the looks of things. I guess this one's pretty much up to the maintainers really... -- (but) Untrue  Whhhy?Whut?How? *Back from the dead* 00:05, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Another idea I've been bouncing around is having both, but I don't know if that would work.-Sir Ljlego, GUN VFH FIYC WotM SG WHotM PWotM AotM EGAEDM ANotM + (Talk) 00:21, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm confused - doesn't your version have both? If people want the short version they'll just have to bookmark it, or javascript it onto their VFH menu item. -- (but) Untrue  Whhhy?Whut?How? *Back from the dead* 00:50, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

.....Perhaps we are talking about a different sandbox here. Certainly, the author of an article could bookmark the subpage and whatnot. What a lot of people want is the tables completely off the page and just in the subpages. Which is not what's there. However, people have not responded well to that suggestion. So I say perhaps we have both, or perhaps we screw Bradaphraser. Your decision.-Sir Ljlego, GUN VFH FIYC WotM SG WHotM PWotM AotM EGAEDM ANotM + (Talk) 01:22, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure the benefits are worth changing the system if we don't go with a streamlined VFH portal. I was thinking we use a Forum-type setup that links to vote-templated subpages, like it was set up before the DPL update, with an easily-accessible link to a page with all the pages on it. I'd still have to work out maintenance procedure but that shouldn't be too much of a problem. —rc (t) 04:16, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

It should be possible to have a summary of all articles currently on vfh (one table line per nom), with all their current scores in a sortable table at the top, and the standard long page of vote boxes on the same page, or separate pages if you want. It's also on my list of things to do, and we'd need to work out some procedure for what happens to the sub-pages with re-nominations and work that in. • Spang • ☃ • talk • 04:31, 27 Jun 2007

I was just planning to copy the tables to the VFH archives as they exist now and then delete the subpages. Which is kind of a pain. But summary with scores is good. —rc (t) 04:41, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

For what Spang said. Like I said last time, r.e. the separate pages thing, I'll be even less inclined to bother voting on VFH if I have to click all over the place just to see what's going on there, and I think I speak for all the lazy people out there.  :-) -- (but) Untrue  Whhhy?Whut?How? *Back from the dead* 10:41, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

The only real problem I see with VFH is that it takes forever to load, and as sbu says, clicking through subpages will likely cause less voting, which I'd hate to see. I'm still not convinced the current system is all that broken, but hey, if the will of the people is to fix it, go for it.--<<>> 13:27, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Brad - I definitely think you're right that we need to keep voting simple. We could maybe have Vote buttons on the main VFH page like we have on PFP which lead directly to the edit screen. In any case I think we could give a new system a go for a bit once the major kinks are worked out. Nothing has to be permanent, and if it leads to less voting than it'll need to be reverted or revamped. —rc (t) 17:10, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't a much simpler idea be to limit the of articles being voted on, kinda like how VFD has it? --Dexter111344 17:02, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Neh. We're not having a problem with removal, we're having problems with the stagnation of older nominations.-Sir Ljlego, GUN VFH FIYC WotM SG WHotM PWotM AotM EGAEDM ANotM + (Talk) 20:16, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Rc, this at least deserves a try. I hate to see some of what I feel are great and feature-worthy articles stagnating because nobody goes to the bottom of the VFH page. P.M., WotM, & GUN, Sir Led Balloon (Tick Tock) (Contribs) 00:28, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

An update

Ok, I've updated it a bit. It looks very similar to traditional VFH now, but has all the functionality of VFH nuveau. Play around with the prototype and form some feedback/suggestions. Then leave them here. • Spang • ☃ • talk • 12:58, 01 Jul 2007

FU SPANG! I was getting to that, but you just had to go and steal my thunder. However, that said, I love the way you did it (I wouldn't have done it any differently), but the "Vote >" button is very uglyful. I'm gonna change that. Otherwise, good. Maybe I'll do a thing that includes the first paragraph of an article on the voting page. I might, guvna.-Sir Ljlego, GUN VFH FIYC WotM SG WHotM PWotM AotM EGAEDM ANotM + (Talk) 13:19, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Also, I lied. I couldn't do what Spang did for a very long time. I think I'm just going to bask in mediocrity now.-Sir Ljlego, GUN VFH FIYC WotM SG WHotM PWotM AotM EGAEDM ANotM + (Talk) 13:33, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Spang does that to a lot of us. It looks pretty, I'll admit. If there was a way it could tell us what we've voted for and what we haven't, I'd give my thumbs-up to this version.--<<>> 14:22, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I think it would be a good idea to do the same for VFD.---Asteroid B612 (aka Rataube) - Ñ 15:42, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

This sounds like a very silly question but am I the only person who can't find the links to the actual articles? O_o ~ Dame Ceridwyn ~ talk DUN VoNSE arc2.0 07:51, 01 July 2007

Well, I suppose not, but I have to tell you, it's on the voting page itself. You click "Vote" and on that page there's a link to the article.-Sir Ljlego, GUN VFH FIYC WotM SG WHotM PWotM AotM EGAEDM ANotM + (Talk) 19:53, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Oops, I was going to link the section headers to the article being voted on, and also maybe up at the top too. Forgot! Yes, I know the "vote >" links are a bit ugly at the moment, but that's because the "edit section" links currently don't work, and there needs to be an obvious link to the vote page, and linking the article again is a bit redundant (or it will be, when the headers are fixed).

And sorry, yeah, it's a bit complicated, but if you want something or have an idea, just ask. • Spang • ☃ • talk • 09:56, 01 Jul 2007

Don't worry. I'm glad to see someone could do well with it. I've been looking, and I think I get how it works, so I'll tinker with it as well.-Sir Ljlego, GUN VFH FIYC WotM SG WHotM PWotM AotM EGAEDM ANotM + (Talk) 01:13, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

This looks really good, although I still think it might be better to have the full list of voting templates on a separate page to keep load times down, especially when there are as many articles as VFH has now. Let me know when the bugs are worked out. —rc (t) 04:01, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Rc. Spang and I (well, Spang) are working out the shit that sucks as we speak.-Sir Ljlego, GUN VFH FIYC WotM SG WHotM PWotM AotM EGAEDM ANotM + (Talk) 04:02, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

There is now a separate page with the summary only, at User:Ljlego/VFH/summary. I don't know whether people will want that of the full one to be the "main" VFH page, that can be decided later. Although the "mark as voted on" feature for that page, though it'll still work, will be separate from the ones on the full page.

Some things I plan to do are: recently featured/failed nominations, and add buttons for admins (working the same way as the feature template code) for easy 2 or 3 click featuring/removing&archiving from VFH. • Spang • ☃ • talk • 11:37, 02 Jul 2007

Suggestions

Please leave your suggestions for functionality here.

Me likey. Just two things:

• We probably don't need the top bar thing any more what with Spang's whizzo table - just a box of archive links at the bottom of the page would be more appropriate and out of the way.
• Is the big vote button inside the box meant to edit the template page it links to? Because it doesn't. -- (but) Untrue  Whhhy?Whut?How? *Back from the dead* alias She-who-does-not-like-to-click-more-than-is-absolutely-necessary 11:08, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that's on the list of things to do still. The nav bar could still be used for linking to the summary-only page, and any other sub-pages that could be useful, i.e. recently featured list and recently failed nominations. Which I plan to do sometime.

Yeah, that vote link was supposed to link to just the whole page, but it could link to the edit page if people want that. The "edit" link on the right goes straight to the edit page, on the right page too. • Spang • ☃ • talk • 11:26, 02 Jul 2007

Oh yeah, and I should mention here for posterity, the summary table is now sortable by age of nomination, score, or alphabetically. If you want.

'Tis done. I have linked both "vote" links straight to the edit page. Tell me whether you like that better or worse. Also, I'll get to work on the recently featured/failed thing. Thanks for your interest everyone SbU.-Sir Ljlego, GUN VFH FIYC WotM SG WHotM PWotM AotM EGAEDM ANotM + (Talk) 14:25, 2 July 2007 (UTC)