Forum:External images SUCK

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So we are gonna ban them.

Please see Wikia:Help:Externally hosted images for all the explanation and stuff that I can't be bothered to type out again. Please note the bit that says images from Uncyclopedia and Wikia will be allowed, so this won't muck up any fancy formatting using "external" images. Thanks -- sannse (talk) 14:27, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikia sucks. Can we ban wikia? • Spang • ☃ • talk • 04:54, 29 Aug 2007

Seconded. Actually, can we just go for the whole Internet? It seems to be causing more problems every day. – Sir Skullthumper, MD (criticize • writings • critchat) 17:18 Aug 29, 2007

Hell, get rid of all those danged computers. Back in my day, we had to work on paper with a lead pencil! We didn't have any of those newfangled keyboards to do our writing for us! I am Boomer.Speak to the Boomsta. Seriously.Do it. 19:49, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

It will still allow images from Uncyclopedia?! But Uncyclopedia is the worst! Sir Modusoperandi ^Boinc! 19:36, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

HATE HATE HAT! --General Insineratehymn 21:16, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

lulz --Roman Dog Bird 21:39, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd also like to take this opportunity to coin a new buzz phrase: wikia creep. Similar to instruction creep and feature creep, it describes the practice of slowly and subtly adding useless features to, or removing standard features from, a wiki, in order to turn it piece by piece into one giant advert for wikia.
Also, this means that if someone wanted to include an external image that couldn't be hosted locally like so, they'd have to get wikia's permission to do so? Great. • Spang • ☃ • talk • 01:39, 30 Aug 2007

And what about stuff like this?

How will nerds know to tremble before the moderate might of my slowly obsoleting computer, without my Boinc badge? Sir Modusoperandi ^Boinc! 02:02, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, what about things like the image at Uncyclopedia:Folding@home? There's plenty of automatically updating images and stuff out on the Internets that people use. Banning all external images seems like a bit much. – Sir Skullthumper, MD (criticize • writings • critchat) 05:52 Aug 30, 2007

Also also, I don't see how copyright / author concerns apply when the image is not hosted on Wikia. Then it's just being linked to. If it's hosted on Wikia, I can understand the copyright concerns because you could be copying other people's data and hosting it on your own site, whereas external images are hosted elsewhere and it is that site's responsibility. Okay, now I'll shut up. – Sir Skullthumper, MD (criticize • writings • critchat) 15:54 Aug 30, 2007

Oh well, BJAODN that idea... --05:19, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Also disagree on the banning. But it would be nice to have a reliable way to find them, as people who don't know how to use internal images are often the same people who write crap. -- (but) Untrue  Whhhy?Whut?How? *Back from the dead* 14:45, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

A reply!

Gah, what with travelling and forgetting to put this on my watchlist, I forgot this page. OK... let's see... Spang: what? How on earth does this have anything to do with making this 'one giant advert for wikia'? I mean, the sekret plan to replace all content on Uncyclopedia with a giant advert for Wikia may result in that, but blocking external images doesn't. And no, you won't have to get Wikia's permission, there will be an admin-editable whitelist. I'm not sure if it's going to be global or local, if it's global then any Central Wikia admin will be able to add a site. Chron and I are the only people that are admins on Central but the others are helpful and will add what you need (or get to be a Central admin, it ain't that hard).

So that covers "what about site X" queries, just get them added to the whitelist. I'll get a list of pages with external image links on them, and will help find out whether they are just links (not affected) or images, and if the URL needs to be added to the whitelist.

Dr Skullthumper's question about copyright is one for the lawyers, but my understanding is that if it's visible as an image on the site, then it's considered 'on the site'. Of course, Uncyclopedia is protected by the sacred law of satire-fair-use, but that may not protect us completely, and certainly doesn't address questions of bandwidth theft (or some of the vandalism I've dealt with recently <shudder>).

OK, I think that's replied to all, shout at me if I missed something, or shout at me more... whatever -- sannse (talk) 00:06, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

/me puts on tinfoil helmet. An opt-in whitelist! So, we're assuming "bad faith" with external images, then? Sir Modusoperandi ^Boinc! 00:45, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Yep, due to experience, and the fact that we've already tried an opt-out blacklist. -- sannse (talk) 00:54, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Well if wikia would ask us before adding or removing features, and then actually listen and act on that, things would probably be a lot better. And if they can always unload the project onto someone else if that's too much trouble... • Spang • ☃ • talk • 01:13, 07 Sep 2007

I feel like I'm repeating myself now, but... there will always be additions and changes that we don't discuss with everyone using Wikia. It's our job to give you new features and options (which you may or may not use, up to you), and to look out for the safety of the site. But we do always try to show people features and talk about changes... join the Central mailing list, or watch the Inside forums to get the latest. (I also try and transfer info here, but it's best to get it directly).

And as for us not listening, please have a look at the new skins on other Wikia, and notice that Uncyclopedia is not having these as default, because we listened to the argument that Uncyc is a parody of Wikipedia and needs to look like it. And after complaints that this meant you didn't get the fancy rating system and other goodies, I've been working on a version of this skin that has these features, but looks as much like Wikipedia as possible. I'm hoping this will become a choice in preferences.

I'm not saying we are perfect by any means, but we do try to keep you informed of changes and listen to what you want. But change happens, and will always happen, and this one is (IMO) a good change for a very good reason. -- sannse (talk) 17:18, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

As I understand it, she's basically saying "FU SPANG," and slamming her reasonable, yet iron fist on the table. Not to be a yes-min, but I don't see a problem. Also, unless new magics have been implemented recently, I'm glad for anything that curtails shockspam.--Sir Flammable KUN (Na Naaaaa...) 20:25, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Shockspam? What shockspam have we getting? The worst I've ever seen on this site is a few newbies that can't upload images so the use external images and it makes their article's formatting suck. Why don't you whitelist a few sites like last.fm if this is an actually problem? Why don't we do something more useful like remove Smoke and Slate? :P ~

Jacques Pirat, Esq. Converse : Benefactions : U.w.p.

7/09/2007 @ 20:46

Jocke, I'm sorry this has annoyed you and others here, that wasn't my intention or my expectation. So far, the feedback we've had from other wikis we host has been overwhelmingly positive. I've not seen a lot of shockspam on Uncyclopedia, I have seen it on other wikis and it's one of the reasons for this change (please read the link at the top for the other reasons).

One thing I don't understand is "Why don't you whitelist a few sites like last.fm if this is an actually problem?"... as I said above, more than once.... there will be a whitelist, and any Central admin will be able to add sites for you. There is absolutely no problem with last.fm images, or any others you want added.

And once again, the new Quartz skins (smoke and slate and others) will not be default on Uncyclopedia. -- sannse (talk) 21:18, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Uncyclopedia should not be being controlled from Central, unless you want this turned into a blacklist against everything from Ossus to Wikihumor. --205.150.76.42 22:07, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

This isn't about "control", it's about maintenance. Unless you think we should maintain 3400+ link whitelists, and spam blacklists, and spammer ban lists, and so on? Of course, we can have different settings (managed centrally of course), and if there's a good reason then we could probably exclude Uncyc from this setting... but what reason? So far, the reason is "we want certain images to show"... which is not a problem. If there are other concerns, let's talk about them... -- sannse (talk) 23:15, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Can you please put boincstats.com on the whitelist? I would fill my empty heart with whatever generally fills that particular organ. Sir Modusoperandi ^Boinc! 23:27, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

No problem. -- sannse (talk) 01:38, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

SANNSE IS THE WORST!!!---Asteroid B612 (aka Rataube) - Ñ 00:07, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Love you too Rataube -- sannse (talk) 01:38, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

/me starts writing screenplay for romantic comedy about Rataube and Sannse. Sir Modusoperandi ^Boinc! 02:03, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I know I shouldn't but I'll explain myself. This "everything wikia does must be wrong" whining sounds to me just as childish as the "I hate hate hat" posts. And the "Wikia is evil" trend is just as arbitrary and baseless as the "FU Spang" fashion before it turned into a joke.---Asteroid B612 (aka Rataube) - Ñ 08:50, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

This is still current? Wow. Reading through all the stuff, I'd say I'm 50:50 for-against - on one hand, there's the shock stuff (which can be deleted, and arguably more quickly if it's a link than if somebody uploads it here). On the other hand, if memory serves, IPs can't upload pics, so their articles now can't include any new-to-Uncyc pictures? Meaning all the more reason for us to ICU them. I can't decide if that's a good or a bad thing.  :-) -- (but) Untrue  Whhhy?Whut?How? *Back from the dead* 13:23, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

People can spam perfectly well by uploading pictures here first. Lookit Desuspam. Killing external images isn't gonna stop spamming. – Sir Skullthumper, MD (criticize • writings • critchat) 21:10 Sep 09, 2007

Our Overlords

I personally welcome our new upload-goatse-to-uncyclopedia-and-spam-it overlords. -- Prof. Olipro KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass) 03:57, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Ooookaaay

Now this, on the other hand, may be a good reason not to include Uncyc in this. -- sannse (talk) 21:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

But on the other other hand... this, which is in the first article I checked, may be a good reason to include Uncyc in this. -- sannse (talk) 21:20, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, Sannse, some a disturbingly large amount of those are goatses, which shows the upside of this. Meanwhile, the list itself shows why it would be bad. I think we may just have to accept external images as a necessary evil. P.M., WotM, & GUN, Sir Led Balloon (Tick Tock) (Contribs) 21:24, Sep 11, 2007

/me puts on jacket with nehru collar, runs to secret lair (2224 Milba Rd, ap #206, Lynchburg VA. No solicitors). Sir Modusoperandi ^Boinc! 21:28, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh, that was necessary evil. My bad. Sir Modusoperandi ^Boinc! 21:28, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

OK, so I still feel that I'm not getting a clear reason for not turning this on here. I'm listening, I'm happy to follow community consensus, but the argument seems to have been "this site needs to be allowed" (OK, we'll whitelist them) and "Wikia sucks" (OK, we suck.) I've pulled up the list of affected pages to give more info for this decision, but it has both pros and cons. My personal view is that hotlinking images is bad for many reasons... including our lack of control/information over whether they are deleted/changed, the issue of bandwidth theft, the problem of using external images for vandalism... I expected this change to be a simple and accepted one. But turning this off now will break around 660 images (I don't know how many of those are bad/broken already). I'm happy to go though and fix all those in my off-work time, but not much point if we are going to leave external images on.... -- sannse (talk) 23:22, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

I'd say the list proves they get used for legit purposes sometimes, and you're likely to just confuse n00bs if they find they can't make their pictures work. Plus the fact that people can still upload the shocks to the site instead of linking to them. Plus I think unlike some of the smaller wikis we have the (wo)manpower to spot and get rid of these things pretty fast. Especially if we knew how you made that list...? /me bats eyelids hopefully. -- (but) Untrue  Whhhy?Whut?How? *Back from the dead* 08:27, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm against external images and would like to see them removed. -- Sir Mhaille  (talk to me)