Forum:Delete "the-couch", a new Discord channel for serious mental health discussions

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Forums: Index > Village Dump > Delete "the-couch", a new Discord channel for serious mental health discussions
Note: This topic has been unedited for 490 days. It is considered archived - the discussion is over. Do not add to unless it really needs a response.

On June 3rd 2022 PF4Eva unilaterally created a new channel on the Uncyclopedia Discord server, in the "Uncyclopedia" section, entitled "the-couch" describing it in his first post as being "...the equivalent of what my own personal server's Don't Kill My Vibe turned into." PF4Eva's server is private so I have no way of knowing precisely what that means, but from further discussions in the channel I was led to believe it was a channel for venting and discussing issues that Uncyclopedians are facing in their lives, similar to our collection of other themed off-topic channels. On June 5th, after I had seen the channel for the first time and read through the scrollback I proposed that the channel be moved to the appropriate section with all the other themed off-topic channels. Kippy agreed and moved the channel. This morning (June 6th) Supergeeky1 registered his vocal opposition to the channel being moved, stating "This is a general chat channel for people in need...We've had a bunch of users going through real-time breakdowns in this server over the years. It's good to have a place we can point users to vent if need be, and for others to step in and offer support...Because mental health is serious."

To me the advent of this new "serious" chat channel on the Uncyclopedia Discord server represents a massive break from the previous culture of our humour-based community. I do not believe seeking "support" from other Uncyclopedians is advisable for those experiencing "real-time breakdowns". This channel should be deleted. -- The Zombiebaron 20:42, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Votes

Score: -4.5
  • Strong For -- The Zombiebaron 20:42, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
  • Strong against Black-2.jpg PF4Eva, the President of Imagination Vote for me My tax returns 21:42, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
  • Symbol declined.svg Against. This channel isn't in the Uncyclopedia section and is highly unlikely to detract from our other humor-based channels, like #general. I also think that this can be beneficial for people with mental health concerns. This does not mean that anyone experiencing a serious mental health issue should turn to this channel in lieu of seeking professional help, but mental health issues come in many forms. Sometimes simply having some people to casually chat with is exactly what someone needs to vent and relieve stress. MrX blow me Emoji-drool.gif 23:04, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
  • Symbol declined.svg Against. I thought the conversation was originally about which sub-category of channels should #the-couch be under and I didn't particularly care one way or the other. I am, however, opposed to deleting channels that were created with the intention of improving community spirit and well-being. What an utterly ridiculous idea. By all means "keep your interactions with the Uncyclopedia Discord Server to subjects concerning the wiki" in the future as well and just hide the channels you don't care for. Cat the Colourful (Feed me!) Zzz Zzz...morning? 11:12, 7 June, 2022 (UTC)
    As I've said, this channel was initially created in the section of the server I understand to be for wiki-related discussions, which is the only reason I saw it or interacted with it. My initial reaction was that it should be moved, but after it was explained to me that there were plans to institute a policy of bans for people not taking the channel seriously I felt it best to bring the matter before the community to determine if there is consensus for this. Ideally this vote should have taken place before the channel was created. I support changes that improve community well-being, but the community should be allowed to decide what those changes are: "There isn't any point in having a community if we aren't going to treat it like one". -- The Zombiebaron 13:36, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
    Of course, and I believe this vote will ultimately determine what the community wants. As for 'the banning people not taking the channel seriously' bit - among the few listed guidelines on the server (listed on the #guidelines channel) there is the 1) Don't be a dick. rule, and I feel like if there's a dedicated channel for personal venting and worries it should be pretty reasonable that this rule should be enforced strictly in it. At least I believe that was what was implied with that policy. (And it's not like this isn't already a general guideline that has led to bans in the past.) I'm personally all up for safeguarding a dedicated channel for possibly vulnerable outings from any unnecessary and mean-spirited commentary. Cat the Colourful (Feed me!) Zzz Zzz...morning? 14:09, 7 June, 2022 (UTC)
    I do not believe that "safeguarding a dedicated channel" is enough to create the sort of space that this channel appears to be intended as. As someone who was victimized in my early days on the Uncyclopedia IRC channel, it is my experience that people will "be a dick" in private to escape the scrutiny of the community. The Uncyclopedia Discord Server is a public forum with over 500 members, not a private group chat. Creating a channel where bad actors can easily find a list of our users that are going through hard times in order to private message them is incredibly unwise. -- The Zombiebaron 18:33, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
  • Symbol declined.svg A... against? I don't see how this would hurt us too much. Then again, I don't go around Discord and want to focus more on the site's contents themselves, so I'm halving my vote. ARandomPage, the named space (ARandomTalkPage) (Stuff they do) 07:47, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
  • Symbol declined.svg Against, and proposing maybe putting it at the top of PF4Eva's Interests and Hobbies to give it a certain degree of visibility. I did read some of the pros and cons of such a move, and I fully believe that doing this would be in the best interests of Uncyclopedians, under most circumstances.  Cassandra  (talk) 02:11, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Cassie. JJPMaster 02:17, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Discussion

I'm not going to vote on this subject because I don't believe this vote was created with good intentions, and I don't foresee it going anywhere productive. I don't understand why it was necessary to call the wiki into action yet again over a single channel that has existed on the Discord server for 3 whole days. Uncyclopedia has a pretty well documented history of users facing mental health issues to varying degrees in their personal lives, and obviously the last couple of years have been rough on everyone. We also have a history of users being revealed as sex pests, and the question that gets thrown around whenever a victim comes forward is "What more could we have done to prevent this from happening?" The same can and should be asked at all times when reflecting on any number of issues this wiki has faced. When it came to the lingering issue of mental health, I thought the creation of a Discord channel dedicated to general venting about standard everyday issues was a microscopic step in the right direction in offering friendly support and improving the toxicity of this community. It's a small thing, but it goes a long way in keeping editors around. And since we're quoting people, "The one person who's the most against it makes the best case for it."

I definitely agree that we should clear up any confusion in the channel existing "for serious mental health discussions" (mental health in general is a serious subject that shouldn't be interrupted with memes and wiki discussions, but it literally says "vent" in the channel topic, not "post your suicidal ideations and we'll diagnose you and prescribe LSD microdosing") and a lot more should be done to point users in serious need to proper support systems in case of emergencies. I even suggested in the server that we add a bot command that quickly pulls up links to some of these services, and highlighting this command in the channel topic. Maybe someone can use this forum for good and suggest some potential links down below. But to clear up three things:

"PF4Eva unilaterally created a new channel on the Uncyclopedia Discord server"
The "unilateral" creation of this channel came after months of requests from users to create a dedicated channel in which they and others could safely vent about issues in their lives without feeling like they were spamming the #general channel, which naturally holds a less-than-serious tone. Every discussion about this received unanimous support, bar one user who believes therapy in general is the work of demonic entities. It was created shortly after a new user asked whether Uncyclopedia had a space free from wiki discussions and memes because they were looking for advice and someone to listen regarding an issue in their life. At no point did anyone consider creating an entire forum on the wiki to vote on this matter because it's absurd to drag wiki editors into a vote over a friendly, positive channel for a Discord server that already gets flack for pulling too much attention away from writing. And especially when these types of channels are common in larger servers, without anyone going to such insane lengths to object to their existence. The alternatives are advising them to spam #general, or to DM one of the aforementioned sex pests. I've had a handful of users over the years who reached out privately between IRC and Discord because they were contemplating suicide and needed someone to chat with, and at least 3 of them were underage. I listened and pointed them in a more appropriate direction, and I'm happy to say that they're still members of this community. It's extremely unsettling to think that children turned to privately messaging a complete stranger from this wiki, and I honestly couldn't even estimate how many users have reached out just for general venting because the main chat was occupied.

"Supergeeky1 registered his vocal opposition to the channel being moved"
I posted that it didn't make sense to put such a channel at the bottom of the "interests and hobbies" list when this topic has nothing to do with interests or hobbies. The channel was pretty clearly intended to be a more serious alternative to the main #general Uncyclopedia chat up top, where we also have dedicated spaces for users to receive article feedback and site support. Sounds like a pretty logical place to put a channel dedicated to general advice and support for longtime contributors, but I guess I should have created a wiki vote over the precise placement of a Discord channel instead of merely saying "Hey, that doesn't make any sense. Venting isn't a hobby." Clearly venting is a hobby after all.

"To me the advent of this new "serious" chat channel on the Uncyclopedia Discord server represents a massive break from the previous culture of our humour-based community."
As does being relentlessly bureaucratic and toxic. I'd rather see Uncyclopedia break from its supposed culture in a way that has a positive effect on this humour-based community going forward, instead of doing fuck all and calling people cunts mid-breakdown. There isn't any point in having a community if we aren't going to treat it like one. — SG1|Hereish [citation needed] 00:08, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
Wow, thanks for the long reply Supergeeky1! Its too bad nobody explained any of this earlier, or perhaps this vote would be quite different. I try to keep my interactions with the Uncyclopedia Discord Server to subjects concerning the wiki so I must have missed the months of requests for this new channel — weird that you were able to link PF4Eva insulting me but were unable to provide links to this mountain of requests. Can you please explain what you mean by "being relentlessly bureaucratic and toxic"? Holding public votes on the wiki to determine consensus is the way we have governed this wiki for over 15 years and if you're seriously proposing a change to that I would like to hear your better proposal. -- The Zombiebaron 02:37, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
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